Do you think it’s true that ‘bright children do well anywhere’?

[Angelsandchanges]

I’m not sure it is. I read this a lot on here.

I think bright children may do ‘OK’, in the sense they may pass their GCSEs but I don’t think they necessarily have the optimum school experience and I don’t think they always reach their potential.

I think gifted children do, but there’s a world of difference between gifted and bright. What do others think? I’m asking because I’m wondering whether to opt for private or state.

I wish I'd been sent to a more academic school, though I don't think that equals private school. I got all the A*s at GCSE despite being bullied so badly I attempted suicide and spent half of Year 10 in hospital... but I'm now in my 30s and still suffering the mental health consequences.

I went to a selective (not private) school for sixth form, and I can't imagine how different my life would be if I'd gone there for secondary.

I was one of the bright ones who was horrifically bullied because I didn’t fit in, in every school I went to, also the disruption in classes from others and supply teachers for majority of my GCSEs meant I didn’t reach my full potential. It destroyed my confidence and meant I chose not to go to do higher education/uni etc in case I had the same experience. Good schools and supportive parents are important to bright kids.

Schools that focus on academics have so many more opportunities for bright children. It's also hard for some children to make friends when they're completely out of sync with their classmates. Private v state isn't the be all and end all, but you need to make sure the child will have a chance to fit in.

Bright children with stable home environments where poverty is not a factor will probably do well.

Sadly; this is not the case for all our children

Joseph Rowntree Foundation summed this up well (back in 2010)

Children growing up in poorer families emerge from school with
substantially lower levels of educational attainment. This is a major
contributing factor to patterns of social mobility and poverty. This
study – based on the analysis of several major large scale longitudinal data sets – suggests some potentially important influences, including:

• Early years: the richness of the early home learning environment.
• Primary school: maternal aspirations for higher education, how far parents and children believe their own actions can affect their lives, and children’s behavioural problems.
• Secondary school: teenagers’ and parents’ expectations for
higher education, access to material resources, and engagement
in anti-social behaviour.
• Across childhood: parents’ own cognitive abilities.

www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/poorer-children-education-full.pdf

There are, of course, always some brilliant stories of how gifted children have triumphed in difficult circumstances, but some children sadly face real barriers to 'doing well'

Sadly I am not sure that it is true. From my experience, there are some very poor schools out there that will not challenge or develop bright pupils. In these environments such children can become quite unruly and can easily go off the rails. They certainly will not achieve their full potential unless they are in a nurturing environment. This may not be the school with the very best exam results, but equally I would avoid the worst.

I have one gifted and self motivated DC who just gets on with it and does very well. Predicted 7/8/9 for all GCSEs. Knows what A Levels he wants to do and what degree so is fully committed to that path.

I have one bright DC who is falling behind as is too distracted by peers. It's very frustrating.

Both are in a decent state school but could achieve more if surrounded by other fully motivated students. Decent pastoral care at the school.

I went to state and private school. Got bullied at state school for a while but got through that and did ok. Private school was smaller more nurturing and felt like a large cosy family.

@HardbackWriter the link didn’t work for me so I don’t know if they adjusted for this but quite a lot of private schools are academically selective which will skew things

Nope, they need to fall on a fertile ground to grow to develop their potential.

Much like adults, no matter how hard you work if you are in a place that is not nurturing your strengths there is no much progress to be made.

I think it depends on the child really. I went to a very rough school with lots of disruption in lessons etc, but a few of my brighter peers have done very well getting good degrees from top Uni’s etc. One of my best friends has gone into to do a PHD. She got all A*’s in her GCSE’s.

Others who had the ability were easily distracted though, including myself. I wasn’t very self motivated and lacked the self confidence to not give a shit whether anyone else thought of me. Also my family didn’t really value education, whilst I know for a fact my friends did and her ability and intelligence was always very nurtured and encouraged at home.

No, it depends on the environment.

I was very bright and went to a series of state schools followed by an alternative laid-back 'achieve what you want' private school.

The state schools I went to encouraged mediocrity in that the teachers would get annoyed if you spoke too much, asked too many questions, got above your 'station' etc. The private school just didn't push me to achieve so I thought I was doing well enough by doing no work.

It wasn't until I went to a more specialised, intensive private school that I realised how much further I needed to go, and really pushed myself for the first time. Started with C's, and ended up with A*'s.

So many variables, including the school, the attitude of parents, friendship groups etc etc.
I went to underperforming schools but got top grades throughout. Have fulfilled my potential.

[quote TuftyMarmoset]@HardbackWriter the link didn’t work for me so I don’t know if they adjusted for this but quite a lot of private schools are academically selective which will skew things[/quote]
The kids that don't get into selective private schools don't then go to their local comprehensive, then, do they? They go to a less selective private school - and plenty will take any who pay. Individual private schools are selective but the private system as a whole isn't.

I went to a poor school but still did well. Possibly I would have done better at a better school in an environment where being academic was valued (rather than making you are target). On the otherhand school isn't just about results and I learnt a lot about being independent, motivating myself etc. It was notable that I found university much easier than many of my 'better' educated peers and excelled.

That’s interesting @HardbackWriter and my answer is yes and no.

To send your child to private school you have to be earning a pretty decent amount.

To be earning a pretty decent amount, you possibly are well educated and intelligent yourself, and those traits are passed on.

But those stats are still pretty stark.

@AFingerofFudge

I think it could be the difference between "doing well" and "fulfilling their potential" that will change depending on where you go to school.

I agree with this

@Gingerbreadhoose

No I don't think that, hence why I'm home educating my bright DS.

Ditto. I can't afford independent school, so we make a lot of sacrifices to home educate. We are not restrained to national curriculum, can work at their individual level and pace that suits them at that time. I can honestly say the children would be bored stiff if they went to school, they would not get the same standard of education.

Being "bright" doesn't necessarily mean she'll do well at a private school. It's very much dependant on the school.

There's more to schooling than getting the best grades though - some state schools will offer a much more rounded experience than poorly equipped private schools, with teachers who don't have a teaching qualification.

Don't assume that because you're paying for it, it's better.

My DS is gifted and at a decent state school so he just gets on with it and is predicted 7/8/9 for all his GCSE. He's happy with his circle of friends and couldn't care less what others think of him or if he's cool or not. He deliberately will not wear certain cool clothing. He has been offered a place at his preferred choice for A levels.

DD is very bright but lazy af. She wants to be seen as cool and is very cool and also has a great group of friends. If she put more effort into her work then she'd get higher grades. She would definitely do better at a private school but is settled and happy where she is. She's coasting academically

OP, I agree. I had this thought and reckoned that while I hear some bright kids in 'rough' secondary schools (I don't think it's an issue at all at primary stage) do fine academically, they're likely to have a crappy time of it. They'll be socially against the grain, they'll have to sit in lessons where they want to learn that will be repeatedly and incredibly boringly disrupted by kids who think they're too cool for that and so forth.

Oops I thought I hadn't posted my previous post so have 2 similar posts. Sorry about that

@randomsabreuse

Bright resilient and self motivated children will do fine anywhere. Bright, competitive but lazy children need people to compete with. Bright sensitive children might well struggle if there's a lot of disruption and they're bullied for being swots.

If a school has a solid 30+ children getting multiple As on average I think most bright children would be likely to succeed, if they're struggling to get 30 through 5 A-C a child that will easily achieve that might well find results suffer as they should easily breach the target...

This.

good summary

Too many variables to say really.

Some bright kids will do exceptionally well anywhere. Some won’t. Some will benefit from private education. Some won’t.

My eldest is bright. Not gifted. Bright. She cruised through state primary at the top or near the top of her class. Didn’t bother much about putting in extra work. She’s at a very good private secondary school and is now working hard. She wants to do well. Wants to be near the top and has realised she can’t be if she doesn’t put in some work.

Our local state school is really good. Would she have been fine there? Most likely. But we had an opportunity to send her private at that’s what we’ve done. But no one will ever be able to tell me if she will do better for being at a private school or not.

I work in the state primary system and have no interest in working in private!

If the teachers are good - absolutely.

I went to a state school (albeit in Germany) and cruised through school despite going through a rebellious stage as a teenager and skipping school a lot!

I was even allowed to jump two years (Year 4 and Year 10). But I had very good teachers and once the material was explained to me, I found it very easy and was a fast learner, albeit very lazy

Depends on the child. As many have said on this thread, being self-motivated can make a colossal difference.
I have ADD (only diagnosed age 47). I was always bright but NOT motivated, always dreaming and staring out of windows, losing stuff, forgetting things. My parents sent me to a small private prep school as they were worried I would get lost in a bigger class or where I wasn't being pushed and they were probably right. I got into grammar school which was again a very intense environment and where I was pushed hard (and being a swot/high achiever was definitely not unpopular).

My sister meanwhile was naturally clever, organised and a swot. However, she was very sensitive and lacked resilience. The private/grammar school environment was a useful bubble for her. She has struggled "out in the real world" though and has not had the glowing career everyone predicted. Maybe a bigger, rougher school would have prepared her better, maybe not.

My eldest went to state school and struggled until his ADHD was diagnosed. But I think he would have also struggled at private school because he could not have kept up with the high standards. It might have damaged his confidence further and squashed his natural gregariousness. He is now at 6th form college (state) and absolutely flying.

My youngest is very clever and focused and doing very well at (state) primary, albeit it is an outstanding one with very small classes. She is a bit naughty though and we are considering private secondary to try and keep her focused in those difficult adolescent years.

Personally I think exam grades are a very narrow way to view education and the obsession with rote learning is probably one of the worst aspects of our education system. The tyranny of the mark scheme has a lot to answer for .

My academically able but slightly quirky and somewhat lazy dc probably got at least a grade higher in exam terms being at an independent . They were also encouraged to try extra curricular things which helped their social skills . My very able and pretty conventional ds would in exam terms have probably done just as well at a good state school although he was really stretched sideways by his independent school. My ds with additional learning needs was absolutely helped by being at a specialist independent .