Was the punishment not severe enough

[countesskay]

My daughter was suspended from school last week along with their friend for attacking another child. (3 days) I was in utter shock about this and explained so when I got to the school.

My DD wouldn't talk during the meeting, but afterwards explained that the boy was a friend and her part in this was 'flooring him' swiping him.off his feet, her other friend then jumped on his back.

This stupidly happened because my DD and the other child involved took things too far after a Santa hat was swiped from the head of the other friend by the victim.

My daughter 11 had the following punishment.

A whole day/evening in their room, no electronics, phones etc.

A cancelled weekend trip to grandma's where their brother went alone. She stayed in the house with me.

No phone during the whole suspension.

No internet access at all, apart from school work.

No consoles during school hours, but had access Saturday and Sunday

We had the reintegration meeting today and the teacher openly said ' we wouldn't expect any gaming devices at all during the time'

I wish they'd have discussed these ideas before the exclusion. They were excluded Friday so with the weekend that's 5 days.

The messages seemed mixed in the meeting in front of my DD, the attack was vicious and malicious, however it is likely the other child will want to be friends with DD again and they can organise a restoration chat?

I feel annoyed tbh, this is the first time we've ever experienced this and I tried to read as much advice online as I could.

DD was spoken to calmly about the cause and effect, especially the dangers of hurting someone whether it's playful or not. We also gave them ample reflection time alone as well as losing the privilege of seeing their grandma and speaking to their friends for a week or have their phone
We got them to do school work during school hours despite being set one piece a, day by the school.

Advice online seems to be to discuss, give a consequence and try to move on

But now I just feel like a shit mother.

(she has low level behavior issues anyway, bottles feelings, feels overwhelmed with school and doesn't enjoy it, gravitates towards the 'silly' kids and joins in, play fight, late to lessons )

Was I too Lenient? I'm a over thinker and struggling with this at the moment.

@PheasantsNest thank you for your input.
I am overly bothered btw. I'm in England so 'wiping the floor' may allude to physical chastisement or extreme verbal chastisement.

Both of which would lead to a safeguarding alert; I have worked in safeguarding previously. It may not lead to a visit from a social worker but would be logged.

You probably weren't alluding to this, however if when asked what punishments were in place and I said 'I wiped the floor with them' further actions would have been taken.

I didn't mean physical punishment. You allowed her to have her electronics instead of actually punishing her. She missed out on a trip to Grandma's big deal.

By the sounds of it, regulating her responses in the moment are the problem. Extensive punishments after the event wont help.

I think your punishments were quite strict enough.

Rather than taking things away, I would look to add them in. As I suggested up thread, look at out of school activities. Sports, theatre group, music. Anything which gives her another outlet and another group of friends.

@PheasantsNest

I didn't mean physical punishment. You allowed her to have her electronics instead of actually punishing her. She missed out on a trip to Grandma's big deal.

I totally agree and the fact the OP went straight to safeguarding when you mentioned "wiping the floor" 🙄🙄🙄 honestly this is why some young people end up being extremely violent/gang culture etc because parents are so lax these days. OP - we're not saying shout and scream at her and smack her we're saying it's not really a punishment if you give in with things as simple as tech just because it's the weekend. So what if she struggles to make or keep friends - doesn't excuse this behavior at all.

@WorraLiberty

It was a stupid, heat of the moment thing which went too far. The lad involved might think a bit harder next time though about how far he provokes his friends in a joke.

Proper victim blaming there.

It was 2 onto 1, he was swiped to the floor and had someone jump on his back, which could've broken it FFS.

I knew someone would take me to task for this. He started it, maybe as a joke, but it's ended up badly for all concerned. He isn't innocent but neither is what happened to him fair or appropriate. There's no winners here.

Electronics would be gone for a month including phone. After a week or 2 I would allow earning back of time by chores.

Oh and would be grounded for minimum 2 weeks

@Hankunamatata

Electronics would be gone for a month including phone. After a week or 2 I would allow earning back of time by chores.

100% right. The school suspension is three days because longer than that may harm the child's education, but that doesn't mean the punishment as a whole should be finished in three days.

I’m surprised the boy’s parents haven’t contacted the police. Your Dd and her friend conspired to assault someone. She may be surprised at the fact he’s hurt 🙄 but that doesn’t excuse her actions. What a nasty and dangerous thing to do.

Punishing her by banning a trip to see a relative is just odd!

I think that, in terms of punishment, you probably got it about right. There is little point in v severe punishments; all they do is cause further resentment.

OTOH, I would really like to find out exactly what happened and work with the school to prevent it happening again.

Your daughter’s story sounds really self-serving. She just stepped out of the way after her friend jumped on his back? Yeah, right!

If I knew the boy’s parents, I would contact them, find out his version, and force her to go round and apologise face-to-face (if him and his parents wanted it).

I would also keep an extremely close eye on her going forward and make it clear that you no longer trust her and that trust has to be earned back by exemplary behaviour. Your disappointment and lack of trust is the real consequence.

None of the school's business how you discipline your child at home, as long as it's not neglect/abuse.

I'd be looking at her reaction to this. You say she internalises hurt and upset, but is she coming across as if she doesn't care and isn't really sorry? I would be worried about this aspect of it. The fact that she didn't speak up at school (where there were witnesses) but that, all of a sudden, when you got home she seemed to tell a version which portrayed her role as minimal. Do you think she really gets what a big deal it is, or is it more that she gets what a big deal the punishment is?
No judgement on you here btw OP- this must be awful for you and you're clearly doing your best.

I think the on-going discussion you have with your child matters more than the specific punishment.

I’m very concerned about your comment for a “restorative chat”. School children who are victims of assault or bullying should not be put into a position where they are forced to say that the situation has been resolved by a simple apology.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

My daughter 'floored him' I'm assume tripping him on purpose - I'm not sure the real name for it.

When confronted by the teacher, she said the boy 'tripped' but it was all caught on CCTV, she then admitted it.

My understanding was, the boy who got hurt, took a Santa hat off DDs friend head, DD and friend turned seen it was their friend, DD tripped him and the other boy jumped on his back
(We never seen the CCTV, this is how it was described.)

DD admitted this and said she knew the boy (we all assumed it was a random student at first).

We don't know the boy or his parents and he wasn't named by staff, but DD knows him as they're (were) in the same friends group. She wrote a apology letter though.

She's not allow to approach him, unless he a approaches her first but this is the first day back so we'll have to wait and see how she has gotten on.

@Blossom64265
I'm not familiar with this. We explained to DD that the boy may choose not to talk to her again and she needed to accept that.

The teacher then said if the boy wanted to be friends with DD she could organise a restorative chat

the teacher would have been told to mind their own business. How i choose to continue the punishment at home is my business and not theirs.

The punishment was 3 days suspension from school. So long as those hours were dealt with appropriately, any decision of yours on how to deal with your DD at home is 100% up to you, and not the schools business.

I've always had a strict policy of not punishing at home when school have already dealt with it, what i DO do, is make sure i have a talk to my child about their behaviour, accountability and my expectations for them going forward.

Kids are 11. Shitty behaviour, but nobody seriously hurt. Its more sensible to make peace at this point rather than escalate resentment.

she was shocked that he was hurt, and appeared upset they he may not want to be friends anymore
Your daughter was shocked that her friend was physically hurt by being knocked to the ground and having someone jump on his back?

No pint in overdoing the punishments. It will then become another issue where she’ll feel you’re grinding her into the carpet.
Yes, decking the lad was a bit over reactive & as long as she realises that you’ve done the right thing.

( and as an aside, it shows your daughter can look after herself if necessary. She just needs to use her “power” in the right place and right time)

@Contactmap

she was shocked that he was hurt, and appeared upset they he may not want to be friends anymore Your daughter was shocked that her friend was physically hurt by being knocked to the ground and having someone jump on his back?

Yes, this was what jumped out for me too. At 11 I would not expect either of these to be a surprise when you physically assault someone. I'm glad you have the ed psych involved. Is there any way to talk with them again in order to think more about your DD's needs? This is such an unusual comment for a child of her age that, regardless of diagnosis, I think you need to think together about whether your DD needs more explicit help to learn the things that other children absorb more easily. In terms of punishment, I would have been much harsher. My son hit my DD once. He was 8. It was a hit with his hand, with not much force, but we have zero tolerance for any violence and he had no electronics for 2 weeks. But I'm not sure that is relevant to your situation though. My son responded very well to a single and very clear message. 4 years later he has never hit anyone again. He had the skills to respond differently and the punishment (combined with our disappointment in him) meant that he then used them. Your DD clearly has some additional issues and perhaps as yet has not got the skills to manage her emotions in a more contained way. So for her, that might need to be the focus - alongside clear messages that assaulting people is never, ever OK.

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with the school how you chose to punish (or not) your daughter at home just as they would argue the same with their punishment. If she’s learnt her lesson and is remorseful then all good. To be honest I’m always guilty of never following through with punishment or giving them at all but I don’t think I’m a shit parent we just all do it differently so beat yourself up about it

At 11 I would not expect either of these to be a surprise when you physically assault someone.

willful failure to think rather than premeditated malice.

I think the punishment sounds about right tbh.
At the end of the day, she's 10. And although that's at the upper end of age in terms of "kids do unexplained, stupid shit", she's still a kid.

I think it would have been better letting her visit family and feel connected than letting her play games which usually aren't very good for behaviour or anger management or mental health. She would have far benefited from seeing her grandparent more.

Wayyy too lenient