Do you think ‘near’ abusive parents watch the news, and think of changing their behaviour?

[EddyF]

I couldn’t think of a title of what I am trying to really ask. I guess I would be interested to know/discuss if parents who are on the slippery slope of parenting (I.e, not downright evil) but not practicing good enough parenting; do you think they get touched by stories they see on the news regarding children being abused/murdered? I guess neglectful parents.

I can’t think of anyone not affected by these stories, and I wonder if these stories can be the catalyst for change in some people’s parenting.

I also think that those who are in the frontline of protecting children, they’re also expected to manage the chaotic nature of the caregivers, thus making it difficult to solely concentrate on the child’s needs. I know someone who states they often have to deal with crying/or angry parents, and the needs of the child has to be explicitly brought back to the forefront, but this takes skills and awareness in that moment.

I guess my question is: do you think parents who are not nurturing their children in a correct way, can they have a lightbulb moment when such tragedies occur and want to do better?

@StellaGibson118

I have done myself. When I had depression I was quite emotionally abusive towards my children in terms of explosive shouting which would scare them. It wasn't necessarily the news but I learnt a lot about gentle parenting and I tried to undo the damage in me from my own abusive upbringing and change myself. Im recovered from my MH problems and I'm now a much better mum.

Yes, this just goes to show that there is no 'one size fits all'. Some parents, particularly those that may have had an abusive upbringing themselves, and find themselves repeating learned patterns of behaviour, may sometimes recognise this and try to/succeed in doing better.

Very well done to you @StellaGibson118. It’s not an easy thing at all to unlearn all the “first instinct” reactions and teach yourself new ways to parent.

Fwiw I think a lot of MNers, including plenty on this thread could probably admit to the same if they gave it some reflection.

Like I said- abusers aren’t just one type of person.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

Very well done to you *@StellaGibson118*. It’s not an easy thing at all to unlearn all the “first instinct” reactions and teach yourself new ways to parent.

Fwiw I think a lot of MNers, including plenty on this thread could probably admit to the same if they gave it some reflection.

Like I said- abusers aren’t just one type of person.

Agreed. All the "how could they? they're evil!" posts are a way to distance ourselves from the notion that it could ever be us.

In truth, most parents have reached the end of their tether a handful of times.

I remember when my first child was born and the night pacing with crying baby. It was difficult enough for me with a supportive partner, in a cosy home and money for nannies on occasion. How must it be for single, teenage mums dealing with the shock of new motherhood, or for depressed mother of four, or an addict on a downer and so on.

Occasionally we hear about the extreme cases but in the whole it is not so clear cut. People are complex and have vulnerabilities which are not readily apparent. Help can be hard to come by. Stressors such as job loss, illness and even noisy neighbours can happen to anyone.

That's why we need better supoort networks rather than to demonise struggling families.

Even a kind word can brighten someone's day, "what a beautiful baby" etc Don't underestimate the power of your words.

This is such a wonderful post. I work with vulnerable children and their parents (more often than not) aretrying their best. Working from deeply flawed blueprints that they were given. I'm not talking about the sadists but those who just don't have the emotional vocabulary (or practical means) to centre their children in the ways the kids need.

Quite often when I read these reports I start worrying if any actions I do are abusive. I sometimes put DS on the naughty step. I once didn’t give him pudding as a consequence for hitting me.

[quote Unsure33]@Jessie75. It’s easy to make political comments.

But::

www.gov.uk/government/news/20m-to-provide-more-early-help-for-vulnerable-families[/quote]
You know that's a fraction of the budget surestart and children's centres used to have right? Hundreds of centres were closed over the last 12 years and a tiny number will reopen under this initiative. It's disgusting.

The centres were closed by the way, under the lie that too many middle class families were using them when they weren't 'supposed to' this is a complete misunderstanding of how the centres were supposed to, and did, work. It was just an excuse to cut costs at the expense of identifying vulnerable children at the earliest stages.

No, I had a friend who was on the very edge of being neglectful, but never quite doing anything really bad. She genuinely didn't see it. In the end ss did get involved and now live with their dad and she still doesn't think she was in the wrong.

@50shadesofcatholic,
Sorry - I am useless on my phone. I meant to reply to your post. And yes, I've found that often a kind word and a bit of empathy can diffuse a situation and open different pathways to people without them feeling preached at... 'what a beautiful baby', 'I love working with little xxx, they are a credit to you'.
Kia Kaha

My mother only stopped hitting me when she got caught in the act. I was screaming as she beat the shit out of me. So loudly was I screaming that my cousin who lived in the next street heard me and came running into the house flew up the stairs and pulled my mother off me shouting "Mary stop it you're going to bloody kill her".

Watching the news and seeing similar cases as Arthur and Star wouldn't have bothered her in the slightest. She knew what she was doing was wrong but she didn't care. She did however care about her public image!

@Carinattheliqorstore1

Quite often when I read these reports I start worrying if any actions I do are abusive. I sometimes put DS on the naughty step. I once didn’t give him pudding as a consequence for hitting me.

Neither of these things are abusive in and of themselves.

@MabelsApron if you heard my sons screaming you would have thought it was. I really don’t like having to action consequences: but I have to. sometimes the reason I put him into time out is to calm myself down when he has been hitting me

When I was a young girl, my mother showed me a story in her news paper about a girl who had died after months (or years?) of abuse at the hands of her mother and step father. They'd left her lying in her own filth, in the bath tub, for weeks on end, wrapped in a bin bag and with nothing to eat.

She said "see, your life doesn't seem so bad by comparison, does it?"

She showed the story to my (adoptive) dad and cried her crocodile tears about what a "shame" it was for the poor girl.

My mother's own litany of abuse included: poisoning me with rotten meat (force fed) to induce a hospital stay; locking me in my bedroom for hours at a time with a pint glass to urinate into, while she had house parties downstairs; feeding me the cold fat from last night's pork chop as my breakfast to teach me a "lesson" about wasting food; pouring scalding hot stewed peaches over my head as a punishment.... I could go on and on.

I thought these behaviours were normal. By the way.

So, no. In short. NO.

They think they're different somehow. And that their behaviour is justified. In my case, I was inherently wicked because of my heritage (sired by her first husband).

We were not poor. She is highly educated, witty, charming, small, round and adorable. She bakes beautiful cakes and keeps honey bees in the garden. She collects China figurines. She goes to the garden centre for afternoon tea. She sings in a choir. She very high up in a very well known charity.

They hide in plain sight. They do not feel remorse. They do not compare themselves to the ones that get caught.

[quote Carinattheliqorstore1]@MabelsApron if you heard my sons screaming you would have thought it was. I really don’t like having to action consequences: but I have to. sometimes the reason I put him into time out is to calm myself down when he has been hitting me[/quote]
It’s true that circumstances can be difficult and also some children can be very difficult to parent. It’s not right to judge from the position of a nice home, supportive DH and sweet, calm DC. @50ShadesOfCatholic has it right. Early intervention and parenting support and kindness from neighbours, teachers etc can go a long way to help these families, many of whom are at the end of their rope or are genuinely unaware that there are other ways to parent.
But I do agree that some people are born nasty. Emotionally very cold and self-centred. And there are those who actively enjoy torturing others, including children. These people behave like this regardless of socioeconomics or the temperament of the child.

I thank God and the universe every day I am no longer with my abusive ex or he might have killed me or hurt or children. When I think about how much danger we were in it makes my blood turn cold but I didn't have any perspective at that time. I couldn't see that then, I think the denial was a protective mechanism until I could get me and my children out of there.

Also, I had quite an abusive childhood, I had a crappy blueprint, and had to find myself a single parent, with awful PTSD and just emotionally and physically in pieces had to learn to parent from scratch. It was a lot, and I was very defensive with any professionals who tried to help. But I can see now that between us we saved me and my children from an awful situation until the scales could drop from my eyes and I could see that for myself.

I am now anti smacking and pro a law change in England to reflect this, I have done do much education and helped so many other women through it as well. I am a completely different person and parent.

However, I had so many messages from friends (no longer my friends), family and even strangers who thought I needed to discipline my children in a strict/abusive fashion that it was hard to think that there was another way. I remember my ex telling me I should smack my kids because otherwise they wouldn't respect me, friends telling me to make them face the wall, I watched one cut up a child's soft toy. Lots of swearing, shouting and emotional abuse. Things which at the time I thought were 'strict' and I know now are abusive. All these people would have been of the "Tustin deserves the death penalty" variety.

There are times when I shout or swear and have a bad day, and it makes me stop dead and walk away from the situation, calm down and come back fresh. Because it's hard to undo all that, it can be an automatic reaction to think "they need a bollocking" and instead realise that no, mummy needs a time out and then we get to use this as an opportunity to connect and to teach a lesson in a different sense. Hitting a child who hits just makes no sense. But neither does shouting at a child to teach them emotional regulation after they have lost their temper. I can forget that for a minute, but I am so much better than I ever though I could be at laying my own feelings aside completely and forging a different path for me and mine.

For me I had the gift of a truly vile ex partner so that I was desperate enough to leave. I really do see that as a gift. Social services were pretty rubbish (and took me exes side for a while 🙄) but I'm even grateful for them because they scared me out of enough of my denial to get help and make changes, and with the help of some amazing women, counselling, domestic violence of all kinds, and loads of groups and courses, I don't have to normalise shitty parenting and I don't have to be a shitty parent. But not everyone ever wakes up to themselves. Facing your own shortcomings and failures, and being able to live with your feelings of shame, guilt and inadequacy is fucking hard. And a lot of people would rather bury their heads in the sand than face them self. For some social services can wake them up, for others the denial is too strong. For some these cases will be a wake up call, for others they will hardly blink

I was emotionally abusive towards my children and neglected their emotional needs before I got into recovery (I'm a recovering alcoholic). I KNEW I wasn't a good enough parent and no family would help with my children, so I asked Social Services to look after them.
They spent 9 months in foster care, during which time I worked my arse off on myself, my recovery and my parenting.
Since they have been home, I have been far from a perfect parent, but I am more than 'good enough'.
People CAN know that what they are doing is not right and change.
Anyone who says that they don't know that what they are doing is abusive is either a) thick b) a sadist c) lying and/or d) in denial.

They've usually grown up in a abuse themselves so they've become desensitised & see it as a norm they model & repeat. Not all who are abused repeat it, but it's statistically recognised as a contributing factor.

@CSIblonde

They've usually grown up in a abuse themselves so they've become desensitised & see it as a norm they model & repeat. Not all who are abused repeat it, but it's statistically recognised as a contributing factor.

I find this super interesting because when I’ve told counsellors about my mothers abuse towards me, this is the first thing they say ‘she was probably abused herself’ but she really wasn’t. Her parents worshipped her and she could do no wrong, she was their rainbow baby.

I wonder if that, being raised as if you are perfect , faultless, blame routinely placed elsewhere and everyone bending to your will is responsible for the narcissistic abuser personality like that of my mother.

I had abusive parents who I chose cut out when I left home just over a decade ago. Even know one of them will put on Facebook about how awful I am for cutting them out and how they were great parents. I don't think they realise. If I was to tell my parents how bad they were they would 'yes we were strict, but look how you turned out' they just wouldn't understand.

[quote oscarandelliesdad]@50shadesofcatholic,
Sorry - I am useless on my phone. I meant to reply to your post. And yes, I've found that often a kind word and a bit of empathy can diffuse a situation and open different pathways to people without them feeling preached at... 'what a beautiful baby', 'I love working with little xxx, they are a credit to you'.
Kia Kaha[/quote]
Sounds like you do a lot of amazing work. People like you work magic, I've seen the results. Tautoko (props to you)

They love those stories, because they make them feel like decent parents.

Oh sorry didn't read your post properly

@PeeAche - your mother was wicked, I am sorry. I hope you have managed to have a good life now you are an adult.