Do you think ‘near’ abusive parents watch the news, and think of changing their behaviour?

[EddyF]

I couldn’t think of a title of what I am trying to really ask. I guess I would be interested to know/discuss if parents who are on the slippery slope of parenting (I.e, not downright evil) but not practicing good enough parenting; do you think they get touched by stories they see on the news regarding children being abused/murdered? I guess neglectful parents.

I can’t think of anyone not affected by these stories, and I wonder if these stories can be the catalyst for change in some people’s parenting.

I also think that those who are in the frontline of protecting children, they’re also expected to manage the chaotic nature of the caregivers, thus making it difficult to solely concentrate on the child’s needs. I know someone who states they often have to deal with crying/or angry parents, and the needs of the child has to be explicitly brought back to the forefront, but this takes skills and awareness in that moment.

I guess my question is: do you think parents who are not nurturing their children in a correct way, can they have a lightbulb moment when such tragedies occur and want to do better?

No. Most abusers don't think they are abusive. It may be more likely that they congratulate themselves on not being like Star Hobson's/Arthur Labinjo Hughes parents. They may even point this out to their children.

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@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

If their child gets removed it's always a mistake, they rewrite history in their own minds.

There have actually been MNers who have posted about having their DC removed and they have been very frank about their own actions and took responsibility for it. There have been some AMA threads from some of them. Like I said- abusive parents aren’t all the same.

I can only go by those I have known, of which there have been a few over the years.

Without exception they have all given a tiny part of a much bigger picture like "I didn't do the washing" or "my child had headlice".

I'm.not saying some aren't truly honest, but ime they are not.

@DeadbeatGasbag

I think they probably are much more likely to think "see I am not that bad, I'm nothing like those really horrific cases you see on the tv".

This is my dd. She can't watch anything regarding child abuse but she doesn't see that she is mentally abusing ds causing him so much distress he can only do half days at school (year 2) and then it's therapeutic learning. But it's not her fault at all because she's a hard working single mum! Which means she has a job and lifestyle she works hard for but easily drops her son when it suits her, doesn't do any care for him when they did live together, phoned me up late at night screaming what a horrible child he was because he wouldn't sleep in his own bed and I could hear him sobbing his heart out so my dh went and picked him up. Didn't see his mum for nearly a week after that then she turns up and is all wonderful mum again and the cycle continues. Takes cocaine regularly but doesn't see the issue! I could go on. Have had 6 years of hell with her and now we just want to protect him but we have no legal rights, yet!

I hope so when they see that Star's stepmother is jailed for life. This is the second high profile case of child tragedy.

Mine used to cry over the newspaper reports about Maria Colwell (showing my age there!) and talk about how awful it was. Meanwhile she was quite happy for her own children to be repeatedly hurt by her partner. She seemed completely incapable of seeing the similarities there. Denial can be a powerful thing.

Sometimes I think the news reports actually make people feel better about themselves. They tell themselves, "Yes I hit my child but I don't try to poison/strangle/kill them like those people in the news."

No, even when they physically hit their child they don't believe they are abusing them and belie e they are using appropriate discipline. My own parents used to literally bash mine and my sister's heads together if we bickered, slammed our heads into walls if it was just you that was being naughty, force fed us, removed our lower clothes including underware to 'spank' us including with objects like slippers and belts. More than once I was kept off school because I could not physically sit on my bottom it was so bruised and sore. Once I was so convinced my father was going to actually kill us all that I actually wrote wills for us all, I was aged around 8, they kept the wills and think it's hilarious. They don't consider any of what they did as abuse and often say they don't understand how anyone could hurt little children like Arthur and Star despite being physically violent to their own children.

@WingingItSince1973 - Have you reported your DD to social services or the Police?

I can only go by those I have known, of which there have been a few over the years.

Without exception they have all given a tiny part of a much bigger picture like "I didn't do the washing" or "my child had headlice".

I'm.not saying some aren't truly honest, but ime they are not.

I would imagine it is much easier to be honest online when it’s anonymous than face to face with people who know you.

I doubt they watch the news tbh
I think some will be the type of people ,who love Facebook drama and are so embroiled in their own lives and their immediate family ,friends lives ,that they don't care what's going on in the wider world .

My BIL and his wife are neglectful parents. I don't think they ever associate themselves with these kinds of reports. In their eyes its always different, not their fault, nobody understands how hard they have it, their kids are so much harder than other kids.

Before anyone asks, yes I have been to social services and they don't meet the threshold for action. The kids are fed and attend school, not physically hurt. Mentally is a different matter and subjective apparently.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I think we must have grown up in the same house

I think possibly, if they've got some self awareness, or are already in therapy, and recognise a pattern of behaviour and realise what they do is on that spectrum. But I think that will mainly be people who have some borderline poor parenting practices, rather than full on abuse.

DM, who was emotionally abusive, would look at the news reports in horror, and be pleased with herself that she wasn't like those people who beat their kids (also 'those people' on TV usually working class, and she couldn't be abusive because she was middle class, obviously). She doesn't do self awareness or self reflection and would never engage with therapy.

Having grown up in a household where there was coldness when you didn't get the right marks or do the right thing, rather than unconditional love, I, as a new mother, honestly thought that you should be warm with your child when they do something well, but withdraw that love and be cold when they did something bad, in order to show/teach them. I saw something on TV or read something one day and had a lightbulb moment that that wasn't normal, then discussed it all in therapy, which I had the self awareness to realise I needed. I'm sure some of my behaviour is still not great but I keep a watchful eye on myself, check in with DH etc, but that all requires that I accept I'm wrong at times, and I know many people, narcissists, my mother, can't accept they might be wrong.

Having met someone like this, I’d say no. I don’t think they always have the capacity or self-awareness to realise what they’re doing.

No. To be shocked into changing your ways requires a degree of self scrutiny, reflection, empathy, critical thinking, compassion, sympathy, remorse and the recognition of the need to change.

These are higher order skills. These abusers who can torture children and hide in plain sight from those sent to investigate are clearly concentrating all their efforts on control, self preservation and evading detection. Much more primitive behaviours.

No. Neglect of children just means their parents regard them as "things". Not people, with rights or entitlement to love.

People who abuse children or neglect them are inadequate - and most adults, even well adjusted ones, aren't good at admitting any fault about themselves. So no, they will justify it very well to themselves, and can never be wrong.

If you have to explain basic human needs to a parent then basically, be worried about their kids.

No. Most abusers don't think they are abusive. It may be more likely that they congratulate themselves on not being like Star Hobson's/Arthur Labinjo Hughes parents. They may even point this out to their children.

This. "I only spank you, i don't use sticks or fists"

People that are sadists or psychopaths won't.

Someone that is having issues like addiction or mental health that lead to poor parenting - maybe, but sadly those problems sometimes render people incapable of taking action.

No, they don't see themselves in the picture.

No, I don’t, most abusive parents don’t actually consider themselves abusive, they consider it appropriate punishment so they’ll most likely tut in horror when they see these stories on the news as they consider themselves a world away from this level of abuse.

I’m in my 30s now and realised my mother abused me physically and emotionally, she considers it appropriate punishment for a child ‘out of control’, but the behaviour she deems out of control was an under treated eating disorder and depression from being bullied at school and home. The ‘punishment’ she deemed appropriate is telling a 13 year old she hoped and they deserved to die from cancer, striking them around the head with the heel of her hand repeatedly (not closed fist so it’s not a punch right?), pulling someone down the stairs, locking them outside in a towel in the winter, and getting my brother to put on heavy boots and holding me back whilst he was instructed to kick me in the shins.

Point is these people are incapable of self reflection. My mother says well you weren’t hit with a belt so it can’t be abuse, your finger nails weren’t pulled off so it’s not abuse…I’m sure it’s the same mentality shared by every other narc bully that’s abusing a child.

Sadly not. Hopefully though it will make people report things more to SS and the police rather than assume it's known about. Report everything. It builds a picture for those to intervene. Often it is too late. put pressure on the government to better fund SS and stop voting the Tories in who have destroyed surestart. Hopefully SS will be better resourced and actually be able to respond to more cases

Sadly not.
Since Arthur and Star I've definitely hugged both of mine a little bit tighter and longer though. I've found myself tearing up looking at my children a few times, it's just unimaginable. I'm sure a lot of parents have done the same.

I don't think people who are cruel would change their behaviour but maybe someone who is witnessing a partner being abusive to a child might be more tempted to intervene. I'd like to think so anyway.

I think a partner who abuses a child is someone you need to get rid of, immediately. If you are in an intimate relationship with such a person then they will certainly be working on you in the same way, such that you can slide into tolerating, or worse, perpetrating it.

Lots of examples in crime reports and very common dynamic - if you have a partner hitting or otherwise being cruel to your children, get rid of them.

No, most of them seem to think their children need disciplined and convince themselves that their behaviour is correct.
I think you're expecting them to have insight which they don't have.