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AIBU?

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Original poster

If Labour don't agree with the government, why don't they vote against them?

41 replies

Jourdain11 · 14/12/2021 19:41

Even if they say they would have brought in similar Covid measures, they're still saying they're not being done in the right time / in the right way / in the right places. If they don't agree with the government's strategy, why don't they vote against? They could easily have defeated the government tonight on the vaccine passports, which many Labour MPs are dubious about. That would have given them the unspoken mandate for a confidence motion, which while it wouldn't have achieved anything in terms of actually getting the government out, could put the pressure on and give Labour a chance to be more instrumental in shaping policy.

It's not a matter of "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good". Nor is it a matter of "patriotic duty". If they think the government are doing a rubbish job and are letting people down, they have a patriotic duty to try to defeat them.

Truly, I don't get it. It is so defeatist... so devoid of imagination.

Yes - of course the opposition should support the government, now comma more than ever

No - if they lump it then they lose the right to keep saying that they don't like it.

OP posts:
VikingVolva · 14/12/2021 20:06

They're declining to let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

They don't agree with every point of tactics, but they agree with the broad thrust. So I think it's wrong to say they dint agree with the strategy. They very do

LouiseBelchersBunnyEars · 14/12/2021 20:09

Because it would involve them doing something.
It would mean they’d have to come out and say what they should do, not just what bojo et al shouldnt

Crabwoman · 14/12/2021 20:15

Because they'd have to provide a solution.

smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 14/12/2021 20:17

Personally im glad they supported the prime minister, the middle of a pandemic and public health emergemcy isnt the time to be point scoring and quite frankly the backbench rebels should be ashamed of themselves. Ive just heard one of them say they voted no because of the current immigration, brexit, parties etc issues. The vote wasnt about any of that it was about restrictions to protect people, fine vote no if you dont agree with restrictions but not because Boris had his flat redecorated!

And no i dont like Boris, wont be voting Conservative and dont think we should be constantly locking down but i do think sensible restrictions like wearing masks is a good idea.

PlanetNormal · 14/12/2021 20:22

Political credibility. All the polling indicates that the overwhelming majority of the public supports robust action by the government to control omicron. The government are taking action, so Labour is supporting that action because it’s the right thing to do, both scientifically & politically.

It’s the Tory rebels & the left-wing Labour awkward squad who voted against the government that are out of touch with public opinion, not the Labour leadership & front bench.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 14/12/2021 20:36

I've seen plenty of polling which doesn't indicate majority support for "robust action". I also think plenty of people will poll in support, while only paying lip service. But putting that to one side, Labour don't think the government are doing a good job. They don't think they're making correct choices or timely choices. So why support them?

I also think it's totally unfair to dismiss rebels as "awkward squad" and say they should be ashamed of themselves. Did you watch the debate? Many important and valid points were made. Many of these "awkward" backbencher are older, quite possibly vulnerable. I doubt they have any interest in going to nightclubs. They do think they are acting in their constituents' interests and you shouldn't minimise that just because you don't agree.

OP posts:
DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 20:56

Trying to force a vote of confidence in a government with a majority of 80 is playground politics. Completely pointless.

DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 20:58

That would have given them the unspoken mandate for a confidence motion, which while it wouldn't have achieved anything in terms of actually getting the government out, could put the pressure on and give Labour a chance to be more instrumental in shaping policy.

It doesn’t work like that.

DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 20:59

@PlanetNormal

Political credibility. All the polling indicates that the overwhelming majority of the public supports robust action by the government to control omicron. The government are taking action, so Labour is supporting that action because it’s the right thing to do, both scientifically & politically.

It’s the Tory rebels & the left-wing Labour awkward squad who voted against the government that are out of touch with public opinion, not the Labour leadership & front bench.

This 👆
malmi · 14/12/2021 21:00

Bringing down the government won't get the NHS through the next few months. These measures might. They are doing the right thing.

Bagadverts · 14/12/2021 21:05

I won’t vote Conservative. If the Labour Party had played politics with this vote then I wouldn’t be voting for them either. Some issues are just too important including trying to control a pandemic. As pp said vote no if you do not agree and want less restrictions, otherwise vote yes.

PlanetNormal · 14/12/2021 21:12

Wes Streeting, the hugely impressive new Shadow Health Secretary was taunting Javid in the HOC last week. The gist was “I can assure the minister that he will have the votes he needs to pass Plan B from Labour. He doesn’t need to pander to the nutters in his own party.” Javid was visibly squirming.

Streeting is definitely one to watch (taps nose).

DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 21:14

@PlanetNormal

Wes Streeting, the hugely impressive new Shadow Health Secretary was taunting Javid in the HOC last week. The gist was “I can assure the minister that he will have the votes he needs to pass Plan B from Labour. He doesn’t need to pander to the nutters in his own party.” Javid was visibly squirming.

Streeting is definitely one to watch (taps nose).

It’s a pity that he doesn’t give a toss about women’s single-sex spaces.
Poetrypatty · 14/12/2021 21:17

To protect the NHS I presume - I think Keir Starmer's wife works in the NHS so I always feel like he has a pretty good idea what's going on in there.

Their choices are to vote against it and not protect the NHS or to vote for it. They can't steer policy because they have no power to do that.

Poetrypatty · 14/12/2021 21:17

I like Wes Streeting a lot. He's just recovered from cancer.

PlanetNormal · 14/12/2021 21:17

Pandemics are not about fringe identity politics.

DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 21:18

@PlanetNormal

Pandemics are not about fringe identity politics.
You think that women’s rights are ‘fringe identity politics’?
sst1234 · 14/12/2021 21:19

@Crabwoman

Because they'd have to provide a solution.
Very true. They don’t have half a brain cell to share between the front bench. They would struggle to provide solutions. The party is full of thick as mince student protestor types.
sst1234 · 14/12/2021 21:20

@Poetrypatty

To protect the NHS I presume - I think Keir Starmer's wife works in the NHS so I always feel like he has a pretty good idea what's going on in there.

Their choices are to vote against it and not protect the NHS or to vote for it. They can't steer policy because they have no power to do that.

He also has no backbone.
Howshouldibehave · 14/12/2021 21:20

Ermmm, because they can see the mounting evidence that we are in for a rough winter with covid and think the proposed measures are sensible?!

PlanetNormal · 14/12/2021 21:22

You think that women’s rights are ‘fringe identity politics’?

In the context of a global pandemic, I do think identity politics in general, including the politics of gender identity are a fringe issue, yes.

Poetrypatty · 14/12/2021 21:23

Not sure if the Tory bots are out but it's laughable to be calling Labour thick given Dominic Raab's performance this week.

DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 21:27

@PlanetNormal

You think that women’s rights are ‘fringe identity politics’?

In the context of a global pandemic, I do think identity politics in general, including the politics of gender identity are a fringe issue, yes.

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. There are far more than one important thing happening right now. Is Defence important in a global pandemic? Housing policy? Or is everything else suspended too while women’s rights are removed? Wes Streeting is a creepy, woman-blocking shithead. I’ve seen how he operates on twitter.
DismantledKing · 14/12/2021 21:28

Very true. They don’t have half a brain cell to share between the front bench. They would struggle to provide solutions. The party is full of thick as mince student protestor types.

Nobody in the whole HOC is as thoroughly stupid as Raab.

fournonblondes · 14/12/2021 21:32

May be Boris should move to the Labour Party tbh.