Criminalising 12 and 13 year old.

[ItsAllAboutTheLighting]

A 12 abs 13 year old jumped my 10 year old son, beat him to the ground, punched him in the ribs, the head repeatedly, kicked him in the back.

He was hurt and traumatised.

I've called the police and they are investigating. Slowly.

When I spoke to police about it 3 weeks ago, he said there were a few options and whilst I could press charges and the kids end up with a criminal record, they discourage it due to not wanting to criminalise children.

There is another option where the kids join this kind of scheme which lasts a few weeks, not really sure what it entails but they also have to write and apology to my son.

Those children know I have reported it to the police.

I was in favour of the scheme, but now want to press charges.

The reasons are this

2 kids kicked the hell out of my 10 year old.

When they had finished a girl who was with them said to one of them "Chris, you need to stop beating people up"
So he does it a lot apparently

And lastly, this week when my son was out for the first time since, he bumped into one of them and he told my son "he wants to slap the bitch" the bitch being me.

To answer some questions which I know will be asked
We live next door to a green and park. This is where the incident happened.
My 10 year old went out again because I can't keep him hostage.
He's allowed in close proximity of our home and I know where he is all the time (find my iPhone).

WIBU to criminalise these children.

Right now I'm pissed off and possibly not thinking rationally so wanted some views that weren't emotionally charged.

You can't "press charges" in the UK.

They are criminals so it wouldn't be you criminalising them but themselves.

You won’t be ‘criminalising’ anyone, they did that to themselves. Surprised the police explained it to you this way though, once you make a statement it’s out of your hands and you can’t choose to ‘press charges’.

@Bitofachinwag

You can't "press charges" in the UK.

I clearly watched too much of The Bill in my youth.

@Hemingwayscatz

You won’t be ‘criminalising’ anyone, they did that to themselves. Surprised the police explained it to you this way though, once you make a statement it’s out of your hands and you can’t choose to ‘press charges’.

No statement has been made. Progress is slow.

He did definitely give me more than one option though and spoke about discouraging criminalising children and instead going for the softer route of using the scheme.

I will find out more when he finally calls me again.

Oh 1 YABU voter. Looks like the parents of one of the juvenile criminals is on this thread now!

The issue for me is that violence doesn't come from nowhere. 'Nice' people who don't have violence in their lives think that harsh punishment is a shock. The likelihood is that this child lives with harsh all day every day.

We all weep tears for the little victims of abuse and talk about stopping it and how dreadful it is. Well, this is what some little victims turn into.

If there is a choice, I'd choose community sentencing of some sort. Because at least it's an attempt at something different. It probably won't make a difference, and it won't satisfy your justifiable rage. But there's a slim chance it could make a difference.

@LaBellina

Oh 1 YABU voter. Looks like the parents of one of the juvenile criminals is on this thread now!

This is an AIBU thread. That means people don't have to agree with the OP.

Personally I doubt a criminal record will do much to prevent these kids doing likewise again, but the apology option sounds really weak. So if the op indicates she wants the case to go forward at least she'll feel justice has been done. Pity there is no meaningful intervention on offer for these kids but that's hardly her fault.

It was lighthearted @Porcupineintherough
No need to take it personal

I havent taken it personally because I voted YANBU. But it sounded mean rather than lighthearted tbh.

That’s entirely your interpretation and I’m not responsible for how you take it….your post didn’t have a friendly tone either (I would say rather condescending) so perhaps if it bothers you, you could set up a good example. Won’t go into further discussion from now on to not derail the OP’s thread.

I feel like the majority of kids who do things like this, go around beating people up, acting aggressive etc do it because they know that they can get away with it.

YANBU

Then chose this for themselves. They're old enough to know right from wrong but they just don't care.

Where are their parents in all this?

You should file charges against them. Too bad the parents can't be charged as well.
Sue the parents if you can.

The issue for me is that violence doesn't come from nowhere. 'Nice' people who don't have violence in their lives think that harsh punishment is a shock. The likelihood is that this child lives with harsh all day every day.

It's still a choice. I grew up with a violent parent in a very unhappy home and I have never been aggressive or violent towards anyone.

Firstly I'm really sorry to hear what happened to your son. It's really awful and I understand how cross and upset you would be. To be honest I don't know what would be the best thing to do but I have this feeling that to do stuff like that, at that age, to a smaller child means that you've had an up-bringing that reflects it and that a criminal record wouldn't mean anything to them or their families. I just don't think they'd care in the least. The course and letter of apology is not going to be enough but I feel it would "inconvenience " the children and families more than a record even though it probably wouldn't even scratch the surface in reality. At the very least to me it would be consistent with my views of trying to learn from mistakes and be better going forward, however unlikely that may be in this case.

@DontKnowWhatToThink7

The issue for me is that violence doesn't come from nowhere. 'Nice' people who don't have violence in their lives think that harsh punishment is a shock. The likelihood is that this child lives with harsh all day every day.

It's still a choice. I grew up with a violent parent in a very unhappy home and I have never been aggressive or violent towards anyone.

There's a lot of research around this. Some children don't, some turn it inwards and some act out. There are genetic and societal reasons why, brain plasticity and other biological and psychological things we don't choose. And, of course, there is the fact that society allows and condones a higher amount of violence from boys than girls. It also depends what age children are, what else is in their lives as a mitigating factor, what other adults they have.

Of course some of it is a choice, but a lot isn't.

And that isn't to say that we should condone it, just understand that harsh punishments are really unlikely to work.

And that isn't to say that we should condone it, just understand that harsh punishments are really unlikely to work.

Genuine question, what should be done then? If there's never any kind of punishment then surely people will keep repeating their actions because they can get away with it.

I’d chase police up and report the offender approaching your son and the threat made to slap you.
Make it clear you want it taking further not just an apology.
We had fencing damaged by 2 young teens and I was happy to go down apology route - it was a silly act that had got out of hand. They were spoken to with parent at police station (which made a big impact) wrote me a proper apology letter and paid £40 each to fix. Word got around other kids too so it didn’t happen again. That’s very different to a teen deliberately injuring a young child and then targeting him again.

I think I'd want to know more about what the course involves and also what's being done at home ie social services involvement? What is happening/has happened to these children to make them behave like this.

I would rather there was an attempt at rehabilitation at this age (rather than the court route as once they start on this path I think it's difficult to get them back. Court/prison is unlikely to make them change their ways tbh and may make them worse.

As PPs have said y to though not actually likely to be your decision in the U.K.

Id press charges in a heart beat.

OP recently I have found its always the same with the police and I have now grown to distrust them intently they are useless.

After I had serious trouble with some one coming to my home and threaten me with violence, the police came 19hrs after I called petrified for my safety. I had it all on CCTV and the police were not even interested in taking the footage, the police officers who came ended up arguing with me not to press chages as they said they knew best. In the end I more or less told the police to leave as they were adamant they knew better and said it was better just to have a word with him and give him a warning.

I found out in the end they did pretty much zero kicking it into the long grass and when he came round and threated me again. He just laughed and said the police wont do any thing and he was right.

@DontKnowWhatToThink7

I feel like the majority of kids who do things like this, go around beating people up, acting aggressive etc do it because they know that they can get away with it.

YANBU

I'm not sure that is true. I think they do it because they learnt that behaviour from somewhere. They either experience or see a lot of violence and either think that is normal or they lash out at others because they are being abused one way or another at home. And/or they have not been taught proper boundaries/behaviour. Children are a product of their upbringing. They don't come out being angry and violent.

I'm not sure that is true. I think they do it because they learnt that behaviour from somewhere. They either experience or see a lot of violence and either think that is normal or they lash out at others because they are being abused one way or another at home. And/or they have not been taught proper boundaries/behaviour. Children are a product of their upbringing. They don't come out being angry and violent.

I had a violent parent and grew up in an abusive environment. My dad punched me in the face, trashed my house, threw furniture at my head. I had to lock myself in my bathroom and tried to climb out the window at 7 years old because I thought he was going to kill me. I have never been violent or aggressive towards anyone. I still believe its a choice.

Yes. They attack people and are of the age of criminal responsibility. Why is anybody objecting to this?! They are just thinking about their next targets and how to evade being caught.

@DontKnowWhatToThink7

And that isn't to say that we should condone it, just understand that harsh punishments are really unlikely to work.

Genuine question, what should be done then? If there's never any kind of punishment then surely people will keep repeating their actions because they can get away with it.

If I had my way? Parenting classes for the parents with sanctions for them if they didn't do them, in-home assessments by qualified SWs with suggestions for change, early intervention in households with issues, massive investment in DV, addiction and MH services to stop parents failing in the first place. Or women having to stay with a violent man because of housing. A proper culture change around parenting. Jobs which actually pay decently so parents can parent rather than relying on children to parent themselves. Work on making the environment we live in interesting, beautiful and child-friendly so children aren't bored and angry. A more egalitarian society because a lot of social unrest comes from perceived unfairness. Mentoring for boys at risk.

And that's just a start. In this specific case, honestly it may be too late and the kid just has to go through it, making everyone around him unhappy for years until he's either entrenched or wants to change. Possibly having his own children and the cycle continues.