To wonder what happened in the F1 yesterday?

[WonderingWoman30]

I am trying to get my head around what happened with Lewis v Max in the F1 yesterday! I have read articles and was watching it… but I don’t understand the controversy… can anyone explain in (very) simple terms?!

BHX3000

Haha

@Ansjovis

After the Belgian GP, where there was an extensive debate as to whether the race had actually started or not, I wasn't surprised at what happened yesterday. The race director then set a precedent that he could and would make up rules on the spot and that has continued.

The Race Director didn't make up any rules, he created an interpretation of the rules to suit the situation that was occurring that there was no specific precedent on. There was no 'right' call yesterday.

I hate quoting the Poison Dwarf, but on the radio this morning he pointed out that the Race Director has 30 seconds to make the call as to whether the season would finish and the championship decided under racing conditions or the safety car. Mercedes took three hours with the assistance of barristers to determine whether or not to appeal that decision based on the fine detail of the F1 rules.

Now I'm not keen on every decision the Racing Director has been making this season, but overall he seems to have generally been fair under the conditions he was having to make those decisions. It's been a very odd season for him. Last week I thought he was losing the plot when offering solutions to Red Bull and getting it completely wrong (thankfully Red Bull realised this and queried the offer).

There are some rules that need to be reviewed. With the SC yesterday, it would have made more sense when there's an ongoing SC incident and three or five laps to go if all the lapped cars were automatically pitted and awarded positions as they stood. That would clear the track more quickly for one or more laps of racing if the track could be declared safe in time.

Belgium has identified that a rule is required to deal with conditions/circumstances that prevent safe racing. I don't see an issue with using qualifying for awarding points (or half points) without a farcical parade behind the safety car. The season is now too long to realistically re-schedule an entire race to a later day.

@MindyStClaire

Apparently Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal, which I think is for the best.

Let F1 celebrate its new champion, and relish a new era.

Is that so?

For the best i think.....
but Max's 1st title will always be questioned (by some) same as Schumacher and his Damon Hill crash, which is a bit unfair, Max did nothing wrong.

Its quite ironic that the reason Laffitti went off is because of an earlier incident involving Mick Schumacher.

Lewis was ahead of Max by 12 seconds 4 laps from the end, and there were ( if I remember correctly) 5 cars ( who had been over taken by the front runners ) on the track between Lewis and Max ( so to win Max would have had to get past all 5 - although as they were a lap down they would have to let him pass them. Then there was a crash and the safety car came out to slow everyone down and no one is allowed to gain a place on the track. Marshall’s could then safely get the damaged car and debris off the track so that racing can restart. Usually the lapped cars ( the back markers who are a lap behind) are allowed to overtake the safety car, so that everyone is in place formation before the racing restarts. Ie the front runners are at the front and the slower cars are then at the back - not all mixed up on the track- and not causing mayhem! They can also decide not to allow any unlapping before the safety car goes in and the racing restarts.
Yesterday - being so close to the end of the race, ( 1 lap to go after the safety car came in!) they suddenly changed the rules ( after saying none could unlap) and let only the 5 cars between Max and Lewis unlap/ go past . This left a straight sprint between the bunched up Max ( who had pitted and put on new soft tyres) and Lewis. Max overtook Lewis ( who had not pitted - he was after all out in front and Mercedes had been told the back markers would not be allowed to unlap- so I guess Mercedes felt that Lewis even with old tyres still had the advantage for the last lap as Max still had to get past 5 back markers.
So Max ( on fresh tyres) overtook Lewis ( on old tyres) and won!

The controversy as I understand it is

1. if the race had finished under the safety car Lewis would have won
2. the race organisers wanted an exciting end to the race 3 they did not follow the usual unlapping rules ( either all cars get into race order or none change track position)

The Race Director didn't make up any rules, he created an interpretation of the rules to suit the situation that was occurring that there was no specific precedent on. There was no 'right' call yesterday

mmmmm Precedent? You allow all the cars to un-lap themselves/you red flag and restart OR you finish behind the safety car.

I might be wrong but i do not believe any race director has allowed just 5 cars to un-lap themselves before the final lap.

Masi made up his mind in those 30seconds "Lapped cars will NOT be allowed to overtake the SC" then under pressure from RB, changed his mind, fair enough, allow all cars to un-lap themselves as per precedent (race finishes behind SC) but he didn't, he created a new rule, not an interpretation.

Masi made up his mind in those 30seconds "Lapped cars will NOT be allowed to overtake the SC" then under pressure from RB, changed his mind, fair enough, allow all cars to un-lap themselves as per precedent (race finishes behind SC) but he didn't, he created a new rule, not an interpretation.

After last week Red Bull were right to question Masi's decision. Last week he made a decision and communicated it incorrectly to Red Bull.

As soon as the last SC was called, any decision other than finishing behind the SC would have favoured Max. That was the gamble Red Bull had taken by calling him in for new tyres under the earlier SC.
Lewis lost more points this season through bad team strategy calls than he did yesterday by coming second.

The Race Director needs an overall objective. It's either salvaging as much racing as possible from the conditions, or it's avoiding controversy and keeping all decisions conservative. I think he made a good call yesterday, but I accept I may be in a minority. The season closed on a racing lap not a parade.

I heard Bernie Ecclestone on the radio too and I just thought "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he". As for Masi, you'd think he'd know the rules well enough not to state a rule then make one up.

I'm not sure I agree with that doginatent...

If all cars had unlapped themselves and safety car had gone in on the following lap then they would have finished under the SC and Lewis would have won.

If none of the cars had been allowed to unlap themselves, then Max would have been five cars behind Lewis at the restart. Of course they would have had to move out of the way and it is very possible that Max could have passed them, caught Lewis, overtaken him and won, but he only had one lap to do this in, so definitely possible, but Lewis would have had a fighting chance at least. Also, Sainz would have been directly behind Max trying to overtake and potentially making Max's life more difficult.

If they had red flagged and restarted the race entirely, then Lewis would have been able to change his tyres. Yes he would have lost all his advantage but at least the race would have restarted on a level playing field.

For me it wouldn't matter if the lapped cars were or were not allowed to unlap - so long as one rule was followed.

Either they all unlap, appreciating there was not enough time left to do this so the race would finish under SC. Or none of them are, allowing the race to get going with the unlapped cars still in position - exactly as they would be if there had been no SC.

To allow some to unlap but not others is the farce. Masi didn't have 30 seconds to decide that. He had 30 seconds to decide whether to let them all unlap or not and it's mad if the hypothetical scenario of "a SC ready to come in close to the end of a race" has not already been planned for in advance.

He seems to have dithered, changed his mind and tried to go for a half and half approach which is why this is all such a mess.

@angelcupcake - if they were going to leave all the lapped cars in place (which I don't think is a safe choice) Max should have had two laps to get passed 5 blue-flagged cars and close-in on Lewis. That was very doable given his fresh tyres and the old ones Lewis was on. Lewis would then have had almost a lap clear to get his tyres up to temperature before Max was behind his rear wing. One lap was lost making the decision.

This is why I'd rather see an all-lapped-cars-must-pit rule put in place for Safety Car incidents in the closing laps of a race. Then there's no delay responding to a clear track and pulling the safety car back in. Getting back to racing must be a priority as soon as the track is safe to do so.

Oh no sorry, sainz wouldn't have been behind max if they hadn't unlapped...
Anyway, all in all, it was just gutting for Lewis!

By the time of the last SC session it was too late. It was the previous SC.

I agree in hindsight (and I think Lewis also wanted to!), Mercedes should have pitted well before the second SC. Of course hindsight is a great thing. But if I remember correctly Max was starting on soft tires (used in quali?) So was always going to have to pit at some point relatively soon in the race, they should have pitted earlier in the race but as I say, hindsight and all that.

Had Lewis pitted for tyres, as he himself wanted, in the first Virtual Safety car like Max did, then Max probably wouldn't have had the tyres to get past him when the Safety Car went in after the Latifi incident.

The issue is bigger than Mercedes and Red Bull and lies with the stewarding in general.
There have been some absolutely shocking decisions this season for a few teams and arguably had those decisions been made fairly and apportioned equally the championship would have been decided long before Abu Dhabi.

In a football game you are not allowed a referee that is affiliated with any teams, so if a ref was born in say Barnsley, refereeing a Barnsley game wouldn't be allowed, yet in F1 their stewards are pulled from a pool of ex drivers and even ex team employees. This will always lead to accusations of bias.
Couple that with a changing set of stewards from race to race and it's easy to see why decisions are inconsistent.

What needs to happen is F1 need to appoint a set of stewards, from neutral backgrounds, that travel with the circus from race to race, ensuring that what was considered a 10 second penalty in Monza is still a 10 second penalty in Jeddah.

There also needs to be a ban on contacting stewards mid race to try and influence them, again, this wouldn't be allowed in other sports yet happens in f1 every single race.

Bear in mind what Sky TV is showing you isn't the full picture. There are always radio messages and calls to the race director that don't get broadcast (I have family in one of the teams so get to hear a little more about radio comms than most)

This isn't the fault of Max or Lewis, who both put on a spectacular show this season, it's the fault of those above and neither driver deserves punishment for that, it's the hierarchy that needs to be accountable.

Yes doginatent, that is true isn't it. Lewis was clearly worried about his old tyres and for good reason. Max really could have got passed the back markers and overtaken him in two laps. Equally Lewis could have warmed up his old tyres again and held him off in those two laps, as he would have had a little bit of breathing space at least. For me, that would have been a racing finish. But the way things were, Lewis just didn't stand a chance, although I still think he put up a good fight and tried to come back at Max.

@RemorselessNorsemen

Had Lewis pitted for tyres, as he himself wanted, in the first Virtual Safety car like Max did, then Max probably wouldn't have had the tyres to get past him when the Safety Car went in after the Latifi incident.

The issue is bigger than Mercedes and Red Bull and lies with the stewarding in general.
There have been some absolutely shocking decisions this season for a few teams and arguably had those decisions been made fairly and apportioned equally the championship would have been decided long before Abu Dhabi.

In a football game you are not allowed a referee that is affiliated with any teams, so if a ref was born in say Barnsley, refereeing a Barnsley game wouldn't be allowed, yet in F1 their stewards are pulled from a pool of ex drivers and even ex team employees. This will always lead to accusations of bias.
Couple that with a changing set of stewards from race to race and it's easy to see why decisions are inconsistent.

What needs to happen is F1 need to appoint a set of stewards, from neutral backgrounds, that travel with the circus from race to race, ensuring that what was considered a 10 second penalty in Monza is still a 10 second penalty in Jeddah.

There also needs to be a ban on contacting stewards mid race to try and influence them, again, this wouldn't be allowed in other sports yet happens in f1 every single race.

Bear in mind what Sky TV is showing you isn't the full picture. There are always radio messages and calls to the race director that don't get broadcast (I have family in one of the teams so get to hear a little more about radio comms than most)

This isn't the fault of Max or Lewis, who both put on a spectacular show this season, it's the fault of those above and neither driver deserves punishment for that, it's the hierarchy that needs to be accountable.

Absolutely 100% agree.

To allow some to unlap but not others is the farce.

Absolutely this. I really like that strategy (including tyres and potential for SC) is a huge part of F1 and it really adds to my enjoyment of the sport. I'm also glad that Hamilton and Mercedes are no longer winning everything without much of a battle. I watch a lot of different sports so I'm completely accustomed to the idea that some decisions are subjective and some are plain wrong. But in this instance the officials knowingly disregarded the rules because they were more concerned about the spectacle than fairness. That is just wrong in any sport.

@Crazyhouse123

So....if you take out any bias towards Hamilton on balance was this wrong as per race rules and regulations? I am more of a motogp fan but followed the news on this yesterday and can't really get my head around it

Also a MotoGP fan @Crazyhouse123, and it's so much simpler, imo.

First bike over the line wins, unless they've been issued a time penalty for some transgression or other, which is relatively rare in the top class.

Nothing happened, the whingerthon / yawnathon continues. There's been no real racing since the 90's. When someone trys, in this case Max, the other team(s) goes blubbing to the teacher.

That's a bit mean wisper... I'm enjoying the discussion! Nobody at work/home is interested in talking about f1 with me! 😊

@Angelcupcake

That's a bit mean wisper... I'm enjoying the discussion! Nobody at work/home is interested in talking about f1 with me! 😊

Me too!

@MrsFin

I'm pretty pleased Hamilton didn't win though - based on the fact that he pays no/very little tax in the UK. He lives in Monaco, though he owns residences elsewhere in the world. He specifically told Parkinson in an interview years ago that he had decided not to live in the UK to avoid taxation.

Yep, same here. I have no truck with tax exiles like him, Tina & Philip Green, Richard Branson etc.

And I went right off MotoGP's Cal Crutchlow when he moved to the Isle of Man, presumably for tax reasons.

@ChloeCrocodile

To allow some to unlap but not others is the farce.

Absolutely this. I really like that strategy (including tyres and potential for SC) is a huge part of F1 and it really adds to my enjoyment of the sport. I'm also glad that Hamilton and Mercedes are no longer winning everything without much of a battle. I watch a lot of different sports so I'm completely accustomed to the idea that some decisions are subjective and some are plain wrong. But in this instance the officials knowingly disregarded the rules because they were more concerned about the spectacle than fairness. That is just wrong in any sport.

I think this probably goes back to a decision made earlier in the season, collectively by all teams, that wherever possible a race should be finished under 'green flag conditions'. This was discussed throughout all entrants to the races and agreed by all.

I think Masi knew that finishing it under a safety car would have caused controversy so opted for what he thought was probably the path of least resistance, get the back markers that were directly in the way out and let the two race to the line. This was compounded by the fact that time was ticking due to difficulties in moving Latifi's car and there were not enough laps of the race to do what he wanted.

It will be talked about forever I imagine, viewing figures for Drive To Survive will be through the roof this year and the sport will have the huge resurgence it's been looking for.

Meanwhile, I continue to grumble about the fact I should have been going to a team Christmas party on Friday night and it's been bloody cancelled. Sodding Covid.

Max also lives in Monaco, along with several other drivers, including British Alex Albon and soon Lando Norris. All for tax reasons.

And it’s hardly like Lewis is popping back to use the NHS services

And you can't grumble too much, pay me millions and I'd be living there too!