To be very frustrated in A and E just now.

[changeitatanytime]

I'm in Scotland, was advised by my doctor to go directly to A and E as have been having shortness of breath for few weeks and today I had an episode of chest pain.

Arrived at A and E at 4 pm. Was told to stand outside as shortness of breath was Covid symptom. Then brought into own room so I'm isolated (negative LFT). Was seen by doctor fairly quickly and was told would get bloods done, an ecg and a chest X-ray.

Had my bloods taken at 5 pm and chest X-ray at 5.10.

I have now been sat in this room alone for 1.5 hours without anyone even popping their head in to let me know what is happening. And no one has done an ecg.

I understand that they are very busy but someone presenting with shortness of breath and heart pain not being checked on for an hour and a half? Surely that's not right.

I'm not the most patient person and can feel my heart rate going up and blood starting to boil.

Am I allowed to just walk out the hospital without saying a thing? Do you think I'm being unreasonable? What time should I give them to until leaving?

Its rubbish but not as bad as it could be. Last time I wound up in hospital (not A&E) it took them over 24 hours to do the blood tests and another 8 hours to get the results. Then had to wait 4 hours for a scan and at least 3 hours for the results. It was an absolute shambles but you kinda just have to sit tight and wait. It's not the staff's fault.
They are overworked and underpaid.

@FrankiesKnuckle

I've waited longer to offload an elderly pt with a neck of femur fracture this week - around 4.5hrs to be precise. I'll reiterate, that time was just to offload from our ambulance trolley, prior to actual triage and eventual investigation and treatment.

And you're complaining about your situation?

Well you're hardly highlighting a fit for service function are you? Just because there are those who have received worse treatment doesn't make it right. People need to be upset by it and maybe it will drive them to vote with these services in mind.

You should leave immediately. The staff will be delighted and it will free up more space for more patients. Flounce on!

I'm not trying to highlight a fit for service function - if anything it's the opposite.

I was merely trying to counter the OP who appeared to be whinging at their situation which seems to be far superior then anything I've encountered in weeks.

Make no bones about it, pre-hospital care, immediate care and urgent care are failing in a spectacular manner. This is in no part the fault of us, the foot soldiers, the ones at the coal face.

The blame lies with the very same people that have laughed and joked in our fucking faces.

Having worked in A and E I can tell you they will give not one crap if you flounce out and in fact will be delighted that there is one less patient to see. You should be worried about your own health though!! Why would you take away your opportunity for treatment of a potential clot in the lung etc?! I do agree it’s not good enough and yes you should expect better but as others have said, this is not the fault of the people working themselves to death trying to look after everyone while the NHS and the country falls to pieces with these clowns at the helm.

This is how it is now. It’s awful I know. Basically the NHS was near breaking point from decades of underfunding and covid has broken it.

Walking out won’t help.

It isn’t just the NHS. Read CNN today. People are going to the emergency department asking for emergency help and waiting 3 days for a bed 😢

edition.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/hospital-covid-19-deaths-michigan/index.html

I went to A&E breathless, thought I would only be a couple of hours...one week later I went home. It was busy, and I didn't go to a ward until about 6 hours later, but I'm glad I stayed or else I would have died!

@viques

I would pop out of your room, ask where you can go to buy a cup of tea and then ask if they have any update on your results/ waiting for the ecg. That way they are reminded you are still there and waiting (and with the best will in the world they could have forgotten you though unlikely), you will feel a bit more in charge of what is happening, and you will have some lovely hospital tea to calm yourself down!

Seriously, pop for for a nice cuppa clearly not been in a busy A&E this century. If your well enough to do that A&E is not for you

@Lemonlady22

I went to A&E breathless, thought I would only be a couple of hours...one week later I went home. It was busy, and I didn't go to a ward until about 6 hours later, but I'm glad I stayed or else I would have died!

Glad that you are OK now, must have been quite a scare! Good advice for the OP now.

I do think that England is a little crazy right now though. There is a thread about someone wanting to have a picnic on a train, without masks, and everyone going ‘go for it’. And now this one on how bad A & E is. You would think we could join the dots, our health system is on it’s knees, so many things have been crushing it and now a sustained high rate of Covid is toppling it.

The NHS is highly inefficient in places, with money spent in the wrong places. For a number of years I’ve despaired at how OUR money is wasted on “initiatives” like the rebranding of the Liverpool Women’s Hospital to “Liverpool Women’s”. The reason this change was done? It apparently is because it is what the place is affectionately referred to by locals. I mean, Jesus Christ, why have we got idiotic people paid huge amounts of money to sit round a table in meetings wasting huge amounts of time and money for this type of bloody trivia. It makes my blood absolutely boil. I mean, properly LIVID.

You don’t fanny around wasting money on fucking trivial shit like that unless you have the luxury of basics like a fully resourced maternity service first, including enough training places for new midwives. Otherwise you may as well put “turd polisher” as your job title.

This type of thing must be going on all over the NHS. Other countries must laugh at the pen pushers we have here in our health service. We really need to stop and go back to basics and get the frontline staffing right first.

You can’t run a medical facility on the bare bones of staffing. There needs to be enough permanent staff in the first place. Too much money goes to paying staff huge amounts of overtime for things like extra weekend clinics to clear the backlog of appointments, caused by not having the right staffing levels in the first place. Completely false economy. Plus when departments aren’t adequately staffed it causes huge amounts of stress to the staff who ARE there holding the fort. They end up on sick leave or taking early retirement. Which means even fewer staff to support trainee positions for new entrants to make up the numbers to replace those who are leaving. and the problem just goes round and round and no-one ever deals with it properly, least it all this appalling government.

I’m glad you’re feeling better, OP, but honestly these threads are getting worse and worse, more and more shocking . Half my family work in the NHS and are on their knees. It’s the same for anyone who works in education. The country’s public services have been decimated, and that had already started happening BEFORE COVID so no excuses there.

It’s time for you to bugger off, Boris, and take your cronies with you.

@CurlyhairedAssassin

The NHS is highly inefficient in places, with money spent in the wrong places. For a number of years I’ve despaired at how OUR money is wasted on “initiatives” like the rebranding of the Liverpool Women’s Hospital to “Liverpool Women’s”. The reason this change was done? It apparently is because it is what the place is affectionately referred to by locals. I mean, Jesus Christ, why have we got idiotic people paid huge amounts of money to sit round a table in meetings wasting huge amounts of time and money for this type of bloody trivia. It makes my blood absolutely boil. I mean, properly LIVID.

You don’t fanny around wasting money on fucking trivial shit like that unless you have the luxury of basics like a fully resourced maternity service first, including enough training places for new midwives. Otherwise you may as well put “turd polisher” as your job title.

This type of thing must be going on all over the NHS. Other countries must laugh at the pen pushers we have here in our health service. We really need to stop and go back to basics and get the frontline staffing right first.

You can’t run a medical facility on the bare bones of staffing. There needs to be enough permanent staff in the first place. Too much money goes to paying staff huge amounts of overtime for things like extra weekend clinics to clear the backlog of appointments, caused by not having the right staffing levels in the first place. Completely false economy. Plus when departments aren’t adequately staffed it causes huge amounts of stress to the staff who ARE there holding the fort. They end up on sick leave or taking early retirement. Which means even fewer staff to support trainee positions for new entrants to make up the numbers to replace those who are leaving. and the problem just goes round and round and no-one ever deals with it properly, least it all this appalling government.

I’m glad you’re feeling better, OP, but honestly these threads are getting worse and worse, more and more shocking . Half my family work in the NHS and are on their knees. It’s the same for anyone who works in education. The country’s public services have been decimated, and that had already started happening BEFORE COVID so no excuses there.

It’s time for you to bugger off, Boris, and take your cronies with you.

Your wasting your time pointing out about how money is wasted in the NHS. There have been plenty of NHS staff say the same thing with lots of examples but people don't want to hear it. It'll be the usual tory are underfunding it and it needs more money. 🙄 you could throw trillions at it tomorrow and it still wouldn't be enough...yeh no shit sherlock its cos of the inefficiencies! But no it'll be give it more money brigade.

@changeitatanytime

Sorry I've had a drink of water and see how bratish I've been. I've been seen by doctor. Everything is fine. Just waiting on pcr results which take around 20 mins at hospital.

Waiting is the worst, isn't it? Hope your pcr results are excellent!

Having worked in US emergency rooms, I can tell you that there is a LOT going on that you are never aware of at all, and that no one wants to make you wait. In fact, we'd love to clear everyone out in no time flat, but it just doesn't work that way. Kudos for keeping your cool with the staff, and venting here!

@viques

I would pop out of your room, ask where you can go to buy a cup of tea and then ask if they have any update on your results/ waiting for the ecg. That way they are reminded you are still there and waiting (and with the best will in the world they could have forgotten you though unlikely), you will feel a bit more in charge of what is happening, and you will have some lovely hospital tea to calm yourself down!

I was in the hospital for an investigation( not A&E ) and I was unwell afterwards so when my son came to collect me he was told to return a couple hours later. I was checked on a couple of times then I fell asleep but blood pressure wasn’t good so not sure. Came around to find I was in total darkness. Son had returned and heard her saying I wasn’t there, turned the lights on and checked they nearly locked the ward and went home! They were apologetic completely forgot I was there. Son told not to leave me on my own for 24 hrs🤔

So it does happen.

OP I went in with chest pain worsening and previous heart attack and monitoring. Waited 4 1/2 hours to be triaged so I think you are doing quite well actually.

@CurlyhairedAssassin but it is the overall lack of funding over the years, combined with silly government initiatives like ‘save on cleaning - get the cheapest contractors’ which led to a rise in hospital acquired infections. And getting rid of good structures like Matron/managed wards. Also years of nursing being ground down and now having a hard job attracting staff, with lots of bank nurses etc.

I’m not saying that there aren’t bad management examples. There are. That naming thing in Liverpool? No idea but I know that often money is strictly ear marked, there isn’t a central fund. Treatment is one pot, and rebranding probably came form some odd fund that couldnt’ be used elsewhere. But the NHS is bad because of bad management is a mantra that has been around for decades, and it just doesn’t hold up. Management also doesn’t really have a lot of power, they juggle most of the time just trying to keep things from going under. Beds moved from one place to the other.

But I do agree it’s not just money. Quality training and good staff retention is absolutely key. Having systems that work also very key. The NHS is still one of the best healthcare systems free for all in the world, believe it or not. The standard of care is excellent in many areas. But the Cinderella ones are A&E, mental health and also some real weaknesses in different trusts.

I imagine they’re not concerned about you. I’d take that as a good sign.

I spent 9 hours sitting on a chair on Tue in A&E. They teared me very quickly but bloods and such take time to process. Also the consultant was absolutely flat out, trying to see as many patients as possible. It's just what it is now.

When DH went in with similar symptoms years ago he waited 6 hours (we are also in Scotland) in the bay beside us 4 people with minor complaints were seen and sent home. One was a woman who ‘had a funny turn’ as she hadn’t eaten lunch and it was now 9pm another needed a tetanus and a wound dressed. We could hear everything due to it being just curtains between the treatment bays. Eventually a doctor listened to his heart and sent us home.

@BashfulClam

When DH went in with similar symptoms years ago he waited 6 hours (we are also in Scotland) in the bay beside us 4 people with minor complaints were seen and sent home. One was a woman who ‘had a funny turn’ as she hadn’t eaten lunch and it was now 9pm another needed a tetanus and a wound dressed. We could hear everything due to it being just curtains between the treatment bays. Eventually a doctor listened to his heart and sent us home.

Funnily, when I've went in with straightforward medical things that can be sorted quickly like child with something shoved up his nose, or me needing a tetanus or a few stitches, I've always been seen really quickly. I wonder if the doctors think right I'll just take ten minutes here and get this person out of the way because they know you won't take long to sort.

It's the things like chest pains or child with viral infection you're worried you can't control that you end up waiting hours to see someone about. Maybe the wait is part of it, if you take some paracetamol and wait long enough you start to just get better anyway and don't need admitted then.

Funnily, when I've went in with straightforward medical things that can be sorted quickly like child with something shoved up his nose, or me needing a tetanus or a few stitches, I've always been seen really quickly. I wonder if the doctors think right I'll just take ten minutes here and get this person out of the way because they know you won't take long to sort

My understand is that they usually have different teams working in different areas ie minors/majors but if majors/resus gets very busy then the Dr from minors gets pulled across to help. Plus there are usually nurse practitioners treating patients with minor injury/illness.

How are you, @changeitatanytime -- I hope you've been seen now!

@Kyliealwayshadthebestdisco

Having worked in A and E I can tell you they will give not one crap if you flounce out and in fact will be delighted that there is one less patient to see. You should be worried about your own health though!! Why would you take away your opportunity for treatment of a potential clot in the lung etc?! I do agree it’s not good enough and yes you should expect better but as others have said, this is not the fault of the people working themselves to death trying to look after everyone while the NHS and the country falls to pieces with these clowns at the helm.

The thing is, the nurses were not working themselves 'to death'. They were standing around the nurses station chatting and laughing. Now that is fine - they can chat and laugh of course and have a break - absolutely fine but to not pop a head in for over 1.5 hours to even see if I needed a glass of water. I legitimately could have been on the floor dead lying there for 1.5 hours and no one would have known. I think if they have time to chat they have time to stick their head in? Aren't nurses supposed to care?

Also the man that took my blood I asked him if they're really busy just as general chat and he replied 'not today'.

I am grateful for the NHS and of course I understand that others take priority over me. The doctor and the nurse that did my bloods and ecg were lovely, couldn't fault them. My frustration was more so about being left in a room alone for over 1.5 hours whilst the nurses stood around.

I took my 4 month old baby to a and e recently as per 111 advice and was told it was an 8 hour wait to see a doctor and that I may aswell call my own gp in the morning. The state of the nhs is shocking and it won’t get better under a conservative government.

@helpadvicewhateverneeded

Anyone who can go home from A&E and can relax with a huge glass of wine shouldn't be in A&E in the first place.

I had shortness of breath and chest pain and was told by my GP to go immediately to A and E. Are you suggesting I should have ignored my symptoms and my doctors advice?

Similar with 86 year old mum two days ago. Paramedics were wonderful but they had to wait with mum in the ambulance for an hour outside the hospital before she could even go in! Went in at 2pm. Sent home at 11.30pm. Staff themselves were wonderful but a long day for an elderly lady.

But the NHS is bad because of bad management is a mantra that has been around for decades, and it just doesn’t hold up

But it does hold up that is the problem. Yes its underfunded but even in periods of good funding huge sums of money are wasted and its not always government initiatives.

There is no other sector I work with where senior staff actually boast about never having any other experience even within their own sector, let alone in any other sector. And gods forbid you suggest that possibly, just possibly there are some processes and practices in other sectors they could learn from. Every little fiefdom is run like a petty fiefdom. And we should all be "grateful" because its free. Patients are treated as if they should be grateful rather than accessing the service they pay for.

During the pandemic for the first time ever in my working life the fiefdoms collaborated because they were forced to - suddenly they had to play catch up in areas where they had refused to modernise just a few of their costly and dated processes and really dreadful employment practices. As soon as the first wave passed it was back to fiefdom mentality. There is no excuse for this and they get away with it because of the sacred caste status and mentality of the NHS.

All my life I've voted to support public healthcare financially but I've reached the point where the need for structural change and probably a model change is the only way forward to challenge that fiefdom mentality and the treatment of patients as supplicants who must be grateful.