to think it sad that such young children are being bought such grown-up presents?

[allIWannaBeForChristmas]

partly brought on by the other thread, but have heard from so many people who are buying their 4/5/6 yo's games consoles/televisions/dvd players and even know of one who has bought her 7 yo a mobile phone.

am I the only one that thinks this is wrong?

A camera is a good idea. Dd has had a couple of disposable ones and dh shows her how to take a good photo.

I think so too - it's a hobby, one that develops (pun intended) as they get older. Who knows, he might cast it aside on Boxing Day, but I doubt it.

I was thinking about getting DD a camera, but dismissed the idea, might think more about it if people with younger children have them and it works.

I'll let you know, VS. No doubt I'll post some tedious worthy of eye-rolling pfbish thread with some of his works of art on in the NY

Tortoiseshell
Using consoles does teach a fair amount about using computers. My OH started off with a spectrum ZX and got bored with the games available for it so he taught himself BASIC and started writing his own games.

We now own a large web development agency, and many of our staff started off in a similar way.

Two of our friends started off wanting to know how the games worked that they were playing and now both code and design games for sony - my brother also tests games destined for sony (he says it's the best job in the world )

I'm all for 'letting a child be a child' but a child in 2007, not 1950 .

DS has asked for a torch this christmas. It's not a toy, it could be viewed as quite a 'grown-up' thing, but that's what he wants, so that's what he's getting!

On his last birthday he got some peices of climbing equipment - again, not a 'toy' by any stretch of the imagination, but he wants to be like mummy and hell, you can never have too much climbing equipment!(he wanted it)

No, I haven't read all the thread, because I am a lazy fecker. BUT here is my 2c worth anyway.

Its not technology or electronic stuff that is the problem IMO. There are some things out there that I would be very happy for my kids to have, because I think they encourage good things.

For example, I think a digital camera is a great present, especially one where they can make movies. My 4 yo has one (actually its our rather elderly one, with about 3 megapixels, but because it doesn't have ANY bells and whistles its great for him). I have concerns about the health risks of mobiles, but aside from that I think something that encourages kids to talk to each other quite a lot is bascially a good thing. Ds (4) loves story tapes and music and the only reason that I haven't gotten him a cheapo MP3 player is that I don't want him using headphones at this age (there is only so much Professor Branestawm that I can take, i have learnt).

The problem with consoles and games is that they just seem to me to provide too much. I can't help but contrast them to the games that we played when I was 5 or 6-mainly text adventures, which of course require not only quite a lot of imagination but also reading and writing skills-but also, because the machines were so accessible, probably a majority of kids had SOME ability to program the computers. DP was actually getting games published from about 11 or so-that just isn't possible today. So I think my big problem with these things is that they really don't allow much DIY-ness, you can't interact with them creatively at ALL. Oh and also, bascially, 90% of them are violent, sexist, and normalise crap like driving fast, shooting guns and hitting people.

I grew up with no tv and pretty much no plastic toys. I can't imagine being 4 years old and playing computer games, or spending hours watching tv. I don't know how that would affect your imaginative/fantasy life. I'm not saying its wrong or anything, it just feels odd to have so much of a kid's imagination coming prepackaged and with a multi million £££ marketed tie-in.

I agree with the OP.

I don't understand why a 4 year old needs a mobile or a psp, there is plenty of time for that when they are older. So many children are given computer games, mobiles and dvd players at such a young age that they miss out on the imagination stage. In my opinion young children get so much more out of playing pirates etc.

I have a friend who has bought her dd the £300 pony .

I also have a friend whose ds has had a television/dvd player in his bedroom (with sky) since he was 2. "best move I ever made" says she. he has a ps2 and a ds lite. But he is also hugely into lego, except "I have to buy him all the lego that's suitable for over 12, because all the other stuff is just too young for him". he is 5. .

CALM (what lovely initials you have now!), I agree.

I often think that uniqueness of experience is vanishing these days. So many people watch the same TV programmes (albeit at different times now), hear the same news - have so many of the same experiences - I wonder what it'll do for creativity and that eccentric spark the British are so famous for.

I'm doing my bit by teaching the DSs 1950s schoolboy words (and saving up my Jennings collection for them - God, I love Jennings books ). They seem suitable eccentric thus far

What IS the £300 pony? is it, in fact.... a pony?

Lol at getting climbing equipment. One year my DH bought me a bike stem for my bike (I was not that impressed) - this year he is proposing a nice down jacket from Mountain Equipment (not the handbag I was hinting at).

I think the thing about computer games is that I find them horribly addictive (I was a tetris queen, and before that a space invaders junkie) and so I have essentially tried not to ever play them. DH is the same, we can't control it so we just don't do it. DS does play on Cbeebies a bit but we control it the same way we do TV time - it's a treat and a reward, but not a permanent feature of leisure time. We have bought him a digital camera and an ipod (to listen to stories on) but I'll resist the call for computer games for a while.

OMG I CANNOT BELIEVE SOMEONE REALLY BOUGHT BUTTERSCOTCH!
I thought it was only for the likes of the beckhams.

the pony

Lapin , it is a pony teddy type thing, but it's bigger than a rocking horse and makes noises.

Agree with CALM too.

such a bargain at only £248

where in the name of god would one put it?

Features

• Stands over 3 feet tall
• Moves when you touch or talk to her Sound effects including whinnies, snorts and walking* sounds
• Includes carrot, brush,halter and adoption certificate For that bloody price I want it to fly, not just sound like it walks!

You could probably buy a real pony for that amount.

That pony would've scared the fuck out of me when I was little.

Actually, in the dark, it still would now.

Mind you, I jump out of my skin when I turn the light out downstairs and one of the noisy jigsaws hee-haws at me

DS (10yrs) is SEN and finds the simple brain training exercises on the DS lite to be great and anything that improves his concentration, speed of reaction etc. can only be good. We havn't told him that there are games on the ds though.

at the pony! Bloody hell, I'd rather get him riding lessons! (my 4yo god-daughter is jumping her pony now, she terrifies me!)