AIBU to speak to junior colleague about her use of CC?

[ContactTraced]

I hold a senior management position at my workplace. Today in a meeting, I shared some documentation I’d been working on for consultation with middle management. I asked them to make comments and suggestions, which may or may not be implemented (but I promised I’d explain why if I chose not to implement a suggestion)

After the meeting a colleague who is 5 months into their first middle management role asked if they could send me their suggested edits on a copy of the document rather than making comments as they found this easier. I had no problem with this.

Tonight they have emailed me their version; attached to an email saying they have made this change and that change and have cc’d in my line manager.

AIBU to have a quiet and gentle word with them tomorrow and say something like “I know you didn’t mean it, but you’re email came across as if you think you know better and there was no need to CC in (line manager) as it gives an impression I don’t think you intended.”

If it’s worth anything, some of her changes I would be happy to implement; but some go against company policy and some I just, based on my experience in the industry, don’t agree with.

I don’t want to come across as not being able to take criticism; but at the same time her response had left me a bit “WTF”?

I recently read a book called "Why Men Win at Work" (well worth reading) and one of the things it said is that women tend to do their jobs "under an umbrella" and the people senior to them don't really know what they do. Whereas men naturally shout about it. Maybe this colleague has read that book and is poking her head out from underneath the umbrella! Though then it would make more sense to copy in her own boss, not the OP's.

I have to admit I find unnecessary cc-ing really annoying too and have often replied along the lines of "x I don't know why you were cc'd in on this, let me know if you need to stay on copy" and then delete them from the email chain. But only when I had the distinct feeling that the cc'ing was arse-protecting.

Honestly, I think your first mistake was to let her annotate a copy and send via email when there was an easily accessed and established protocol - shared comments.

It increases your workload - having to transfer from different sources, having to respond individually etc.

The cc is definitely not cool.

I’d have a word - Dear X, thanks for this. I’m not sure why you cc’ed Y, though? Do we need to discuss anything in particular?

I pulled a more junior person up on this recently. They emailed me moaning about something I’d done which they didn’t like. Just work stuff. It was their first week in the job straight out of college and they cc’d my manager in.

I emailed them back thanking them for their thoughts. Politely explained why they were wrong and at the end just said if they ever have an issue again I always welcome feedback but please to initially at least keep it to those involved.

@Sausagedogsarethebest

If the colleague is fairly new to the company then I'd wonder if she's had bad experiences at other workplaces where senior people have 'stolen' her ideas and not given credit. Alternatively she may think by copying in your senior then it's a way of making herself shine to leadership.

Well, if she’d used the shared doc and left public comments then her ideas would be visible to all.

I'd reply to her email saying thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately many would not work since they're against company policy, or industry standards.
Maybe send her some company policy links, to help familiarize her.

Then a the end, a one-liner, saying no need to cc manager since the document is only in draft.

Mmmm I wonder why she felt it necessary or desirable to do this - I think I would watch my back, she sounds like a trouble maker - I would certainly have a quiet word with her to let her know that in future would she not go over your head, it's rude at best and she must not do it again

As a director at my company company I am often copied into email like this, and have to say it winds up no end.
This is EXACTLY WHY WE HAVE A MANAGENENT HIERARCHY!!
If your LM is anything like most senior managers, they'll ignore it!
I definitely don't think it says anything about you, but does say a lot about her. And it's not great.

It wouldn't hurt to take her aside and call her out on it, I like the comments at beginning of thread that suggest outright asking what she was trying to achieve by doing it!

I’m a Team Leader, there’s a lady I work with that CC’s her Manager in on every email she sends to me. It drives me mad. I respond to her without copying her Manager in - it makes me feel better.
She really doesn’t need to copy her Manager in on an email responding to my sending out the normal weekly rota or me asking if anyone needs any stationery ordered.

I think you need to set out a document review process, with timescales even if you just put it in a covering email with the doc.
If it’s your document and your process you can define how/when you want to receive comments on the first draft and what the next steps will be

@StepAwayFromGoogling

Yep, this would piss me right off. I HATE people copying in my manager to emails I've sent. Why the need? You're doing one of two things a) trying to highlight to my manager that you think I'm doing something wrong (in which case, how about just speaking to me?) or b) showing off to my manager that you believe you have contributed something astounding to a piece of work. Either way it's a passive aggressive dick move. And, yes, I'd call them on it.

This 👆

@Viviennemary

I'd say she is after your job and is out to make a name for herself with the senior management. Its quite cheeky for a newish person to do this. I think I would let it go but look to get rid of her from your team.

I agree it certainly looks like this.🙄 However I would be right on it and nip it in the bud before it escalates. But gently!😉

Please have a conversation. I cannot think of anyone ever saying they get too few emails, so avoiding email overload could be the way in.

You sound like you’re annoyed because you wanted to pass their ideas off as your own.

@Sorryusernamealreadyexists

You sound like you’re annoyed because you wanted to pass their ideas off as your own.

No she doesn't.

See I’ve been out of the workplace for several years.. I wouldn’t have a clue about email etiquette, or when to cc anyone else. I could see myself messing up like this if I ever started an office job, and would be mortified to get some of these replies.
So, on the off chance that it’s totally innocent, could you not just remove your manager from the email chain, and see if she gets the hint?

@Sorryusernamealreadyexists

You sound like you’re annoyed because you wanted to pass their ideas off as your own.

Lol...you're probably just like the junior who sent the message. Watched too many films where the lowly new staff member gets her idea stolen by the older, bitch boss. Life's not really like that.

I would have a word, but not in the judgy way you've suggested in your OP. The last place I worked it was standard practice to cc in managers so that they were kept abrest of what was going on in projects and everybody's workloads/progress, so don't come in accusing her of being passive agressive, just clarify the expectations within your teams.

[quote ContactTraced]@minipie no, we don’t share line managers.

I’m not wound by it per se… it definitely more of a niggle than a huge concern and I was thinking of phrasing it as advice for the future rather than me being upset.

However; the culture in my workplace is such that think my line manager is likely to interpret the same way as I have; as he is often complaining about senior management being cc’d into things into things “to make a point”[/quote]
I know you said you were going to talk to the junior tomorrow, but if you haven't already done so, you could just say that senior boss finds being cc'd into messages annoying. Junior won't want to do it again & risk annoying the higher ups. You won't risk looking petty or annoyed yourself & she (?) may thank you for the heads up

*yesterday

You gave specific instructions which your colleague did not follow. Either they did not read the brief properly, or they were trying it on. You need to straighten them out or they will become a right pain.

Doesn't bother me at all, I'm CEO for 3 organisations and I make a point of CCing all of my staff with stuff like this to ensure I am being transparent.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Are you applauding your own misogyny there?

If she’s five months into her first middle mgmt role she’s probably trying to make an impression.

I’d either email of speak to her saying, Thanks a lot for your suggestions on the draft which I’ll take into account as I finalise it. Just so you know, we normally restrict cc’ing to those directly involved, so as to reduce email traffic for senior mgmt.’

And next time, require her to use the comments function (not track changes). The latter can be very irritating when from junior/ less experienced colleagues (gives the sense of ‘improving’ work by a senior colleague). Comments requires more effort and thoughtfulness., plus more tact and diplomacy.