AIBU to speak to junior colleague about her use of CC?

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I hold a senior management position at my workplace. Today in a meeting, I shared some documentation I’d been working on for consultation with middle management. I asked them to make comments and suggestions, which may or may not be implemented (but I promised I’d explain why if I chose not to implement a suggestion)

After the meeting a colleague who is 5 months into their first middle management role asked if they could send me their suggested edits on a copy of the document rather than making comments as they found this easier. I had no problem with this.

Tonight they have emailed me their version; attached to an email saying they have made this change and that change and have cc’d in my line manager.

AIBU to have a quiet and gentle word with them tomorrow and say something like “I know you didn’t mean it, but you’re email came across as if you think you know better and there was no need to CC in (line manager) as it gives an impression I don’t think you intended.”

If it’s worth anything, some of her changes I would be happy to implement; but some go against company policy and some I just, based on my experience in the industry, don’t agree with.

I don’t want to come across as not being able to take criticism; but at the same time her response had left me a bit “WTF”?

You do sound a bit uptight about stuff. I couldn’t give a monkeys if my manager is CC’d into emails for me. I think it would be wise to take a step back and think about why this has annoyed so much. Is it her, is it the suggestions themselves? Etc

Ah, for those of you who don't work in an office, this is an example of what they call "office politics"......tiresome, petty shit.

Is she new to the company? In my company it’s very standard to cc in basically anyone who could possibly be involved in an email when it’s sent. I wouldn’t think twice about sending an email like that - in fact, it would be very standard in my workplace.

You are correct, she is being cheeky, I would reply back, remove manger and say I am removing so and so as this is not an escalation and doesn’t require them in this email.
May I also request you do notes rather than edit as it’s easier for me.

Hi X - Thanks for your suggestions. Going forward when you are emailing suggestions for a draft, just send them to the person responsible for the final doc, rather than copying other team members. It's the person responsible for final docs job to circulate it at the point it's ready to be shared.

If there's a next time get them to use notes.

This is perfect! It admonishes them at the same time as giving constructive feedback. And really can't be argued with.

She sounds like an arse!

It sounds to me as though she's worried you might try to pass off her suggestions as your own.

I see this as a complete non issue as well. Your suggested response is accusatory and inflammatory. It sounds like you want to "put them in their place" which is not going to achieve anything positive imho. "It came across as you think you know better" basically means "I know better than you". Not exactly a great response from a manager when you asked for their feedback and ideas.

If your line manager doesn't need to see the email then they will ignore it anyway. Take your line manager off any reply and carry on with things.

The reason they CC'd your manager could be anything from that's how it was done in their old place to they want to lick arse. If it's the latter then you saying something isn't going to change their mentality anyway. Could it be they felt like you were taking all the credit on something that sounds like will end up a collaborative piece of work?

I would definitely have a word with her about it and explain when it is appropriate to cc someone and when it’s not. I think it’s unprofessional to add someone that senior into an email chain without reason.

You say some of her changes go against company policy and some reflect her inexperience compared to yours, so she’s made herself look unprofessional. I’d also be tempted to point out that as she is new to her role and still learning she might want to seek approval of these areas before including more senior people into her comments.

You don’t need to worry about it looking as though you can’t take criticism - you were not asking for nor received criticism. Frame the conversation as you wanting to help her develop experience.

@TwinklyBranch

I would just ignore it and not even mention it. If your line manager thinks it's inappropriate/unnecessary, let them say something.

I agree with this.

It is annoying but you are in a senior position to her and need to have broader shoulders. It never looks good to confront a junior over their behaviour, particularly if they are in another team, in which case you may end up pissing off their manager, who is on your same level.

So the right thing to do is to go to their manager to resolve this but this is such a minute thing that it will make their manager go wtf and you look petty to the manager.

So in a roundabout way, just let this one go. You have bigger fish to fry. Choose your battles etc

I’d reply all and say, “Thanks for that Newbie. Manager I’ll forward to you when it’s done”. I wouldn’t tell her off for it.

Whilst I wouldn’t be concerned by this at all (it being up to the manger cc’d to protest if they want to) I think the below feels like a proportionate response if it’s in danger of escalating from a niggle to an issue.

Luredbyapomegranate
I'd say something like -

Hi X - Thanks for your suggestions. Going forward when you are emailing suggestions for a draft, just send them to the person responsible for the final doc, rather than copying other team members. It's the person responsible for final docs job to circulate it at the point it's ready to be shared.

If there's a next time get them to use notes.

AIBU to have a quiet and gentle word with them tomorrow and say something like “I know you didn’t mean it, but you’re email came across as if you think you know better and there was no need to CC in (line manager) as it gives an impression I don’t think you intended.”

It's a tricky one but I think your wording here is off and a little unprofessional. It makes you seem overly sensitive (maybe you are a bit?)

I'm sure they didn't mean to criticise you. There are often cross wires in emails. They are probably just giving you their input in the way which is most straightforward to them. The only potential issue is CC'ing in your manager unnecessarily, which you can resolve with a brief "No need to copy in X to these emails".

Maybe in their next supervision talk about how communications work, if there is a structure where staff communicate with you and you communicate with the manager to save time and make things simpler, just explain that to them.

There's really no need to make a fuss about it now and it will just make your colleague feel bad about something they have probably worked hard on. I think you should rein in your ego and don't take offense at this.

@Grumpasaurus gave some good advice.

@WindyWindsor

I see this as a complete non issue as well. Your suggested response is accusatory and inflammatory. It sounds like you want to "put them in their place" which is not going to achieve anything positive imho. "It came across as you think you know better" basically means "I know better than you". Not exactly a great response from a manager when you asked for their feedback and ideas.

If your line manager doesn't need to see the email then they will ignore it anyway. Take your line manager off any reply and carry on with things.

Yes, exactly.

In some areas, maybe they do know better than you. Just because you are their manager doesn't actually mean you always "know better", and this response is unpleasant and patronising.

You are basically saying "Know Your Place". This not good management.

I like grumposaurus email. Personally I would probably not even do that. I would have a quick chat to line manager about something else and say “sorry about that” and confirm my understanding that he found it unnecessary.

Then I would tell the mentee verbally (whilst talking about some of the good comments) that unfortunately it made her come across as a bit of an idiot but that I had apologised to line manager.

If I liked her, I would then offer her a way to present her ideas to line manager in a more organised way after I had commented on them and at a later stage.

I am a SAHM now but people used to really like to work for me as I always tried to help them develop and look good. If they annoyed me (no effort, pulled stunts, etc) I become more like the average boss (more work, less development). They usually really tried to get back on my good side.

If it is a political workplace this isn’t a “non issue” I think. You don’t cc senior people on a rubbish they don’t need to read.

If OP is mentoring this person, it is actually part of the process to help them understand when to cc and not - and to help them come across well to senior people in a more organised way.

I’d respond politely and factually but with ‘moving (manager) to bcc’ as a gentle point that they didn’t need to be included. I wouldn’t make a thing out if it as that’s enough for them to pick up on their cultural misstep. I.E. you’re talking to me and don’t need to bother my manager.

I’d keep an eye open though - does she have form or some kind of reason to think that what’s she’s requesting from you needs to be documented outside of you? The email plus including your manager is doubly that?

@minipie

My guess is that she cc’d her manager because she was trying to demonstrate to her manager that she was making a contribution, having ideas, using her time productively etc. Not because she was trying to do you down.

I think you should say to her that she didn’t need to copy the manager in, but do it gently.

It’s the OP’s line manager she copied in, not her own.

OP I agree with the suggestion of asking her why she did it.

@peachesarenom

She sounds like an arse!

Really?

She took the time to review and provide well thought out feedback. Perhaps something was said that she felt the cc appropriate.

It's 2021 not 1921 - I do not get the obsession with hierarchy. It's a vile culture. I am a CEO and honestly would not give this a second thought.

OP - it might be worth actually talking to your colleague serf

I'd also suggest she learns to use the edit function for docs and not actually change them.

I'd also ask why the cc.

I think this is a conversation worth having.

The Line Manager is a person, not so important that they need to be saved from the witterings of the lesser beings. Bloody hell....

I would not say anything. It will make you seem quite petty in my opinion and it's really not a big deal. Probably really make her feel awful too.

I think I'd take grumpasaurus has the best plan - there's no point being grumpy about this at this point and this maintains both relationships.

The person in question does sound a bit annoying but the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" is really true so often.

This person does not report to you and therefore I don’t think it is your place to tell them so they can and cannot copy into emails. You also don’t need to tell other people, including your line manager, what emails they should or shouldn’t choose to read.

To me this sounds likes someone who is trying hard and wants to demonstrate their contribution. The only other possible take out is that people think you are someone that tries to take credit for their work, but if this is not the case then I would say it is just the former, someone new trying to make an impression.

I think if you try to make more of this, it is you that looks insecure and petty. Don’t say anything.