Pay to be Poor

[LetterBug]

Got sent into an un- arrangement overdraft and it costs £30. So you are fined for having no money. Meaning when I'm paid I will be £30 down from the off. Meaning I will more likely run out of money again. costing another £30.

Pay to be poor.

It’s not true though that you can’t change pre payment meters. You can and it’s free (provided non payment wasn’t the reason it was put in in the first place). Also free food at work is pretty rare for most outside the restaurant trade

And forgot about flying! Work means he’s got enough points for a BA lounge. So that’s free food and drinks ( including alcohol) for as long as you want in the comfy lounge. His work mean we can have a 3 hour lunch with unlimited wine and wine and fizz. Really nice showers and toilets too.
I get discounts and best prices as a budget conscious poor person but it’s not in the same league at all.

Yes, so unfair. My husband has an "arranged" overdraft that has no charges of think £200 whereas know if for people on benefits then the banks will not allow you to have a free overdraft facility. We check our online banking each morning and know its a hard time of the year for all thats unfortunately how the banks make their money. However my son at one time about 8 years ago made an appointment with his bank and got 2 x the overdraft charges back which think was about £10 each so that was good so its worth getting an appointment as you just never know the outcome. Once I myself get my weekly state pension in a few more years time (as it now 66 years of age) then it will certainly make our lives much more enjoyable + can afford a few more luxuries, as so many of my female friends got theirs at age of 60 (most of who are much better off than us in any case). But thats another great debate to talk upon for sure.

OP you are absolutely right, you pay more to be poor in time and money at virtually every turn. I say that as someone who has been well off my whole life (2% not .1%). I see it and I have no idea what to do to help apart from pay my taxes and vote to increase them for people like me every chance I get.

Yesterday I popped into the cheaper chain of supermarkets where I live and all the queues were rammed (maybe 10-15 minute wait). I got annoyed and left knowing I can just pop to the expensive one near me and it won’t have a queue at all. And yet my time is less stressed, we’re a two income full time family with a reliable nanny (because we can afford to pay someone at the top of the local salary range) a cleaner & lots of retired older relatives around to help us. My supermarket should take longer in the queue because I can afford the time but it never will.

Reliable childcare means I won’t miss work because of illness and in any case I was able to pick a flexible employer because it didn’t matter if I was off work for a little longer.

And behind all of this is a deep well of family money that means we will never really worry about not paying bills.

I don’t know how we can change the inequality, either as individuals or as a society.

bosses get free parking at nearby car park , one parks and charges her Tesla no congestion charge , pleb staff can get reduced rate parking of £15 per day plus congestion charge for my older petrol car

"banks aren't businesses". Where did you get that idea? Banks are there to make money from their customers - you! They are not charities that give money/services to you with no payback. You use theircservices, you pay for them. If you want to pay less, try your local credit union. But remember, they will charge you too if you can't manage your money. Learn to do that and you will be quids in. I can now manage everything bar the rent in £800 a, month. Rent is always paid first...

I know @LetterBug did not especially mention Beaver / Cub or Scout subs, but others have, notably @fluffythedragonslayer. And then mentioned by @bupyloulou, @ragwort, @DownToTheSeaAgain, @hivemindneeded. @Chasingsquirrels. @AnneElliott, @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll. Thank you all for the comments, they are spot on. Like others listed above, I'm involved in a group, and sometimes people struggle to afford it when there is so much going out for other things. One quick (and confidential) email to the GSL, which is shared with the Treasurer only about subs tends to do the job. Nobody who volunteers in Scouting EVER wants to see a child unable to come because of the money. Not all groups are cash rich (and they are independent charities), but even the groups that have to fund-raise etc. have recourse to their District, and ultimately, to County, and then Nationally to get a bit of support. I'm a GSL, and would honestly rather stand down than someone not be able to come, and I think I speak for most of our volunteers. xxx

I would do what I can to improved my situation or earnings in your position. Also, check your outgoings and see if you can reduce some expenses. If it is not possible now make a plan. Do not leave your money in an overdraft. We live in a country with many opportunities but we need to see the forest for the trees. May be you can’t do it now but have a plan to leave poverty. I was you in the past so hopefully you can too.

The more you earn, the more tax you pay, including vat on purchases. ,and this is used to benefit everyone.

Nah if you’re proper rich then there’s all sorts of tax saving schemes out there.

@GrealishHairband
What sort of schemes are there? (And what is proper rich?, Inherited estate? Earning over £100k a year? Earning over NMW?)

We not proper rich and we pay all taxes we have to.
BUT due to various perfectly legal schemes etc we are able to pay a lot less tax (pro rata) than a MW job I’m sure
We are hardly in the sending it all offshore league but we have a good Accountant and via work I also have access to things that reduce my tax bill

This is shocking isn't it? I've always commented on celebrities being offered things for free as part of a promotion but this above must be the case for so many highly paid people.

There are rules and contracts too. I remember there was this celebrity who had to pay a massive fine because she wore a wrong designer's watch to an event. Cartier instead of Gucci, or something like that.

@Mere1

The more you earn, the more tax you pay, including vat on purchases. ,and this is used to benefit everyone.

Except the proper rich aren't rich due to earnings. There rich due to income from holding companies and investments. It's possible to massively reduce the tax you pay when income isn't through PAYE earnings.

Are people still having to use top up cards for electricity at hugely inflated cost?

I don’t understand how that’s even legal.

Yes @MrsSkylerWhite. Very common still.

[quote DameCelia]@GrealishHairband
What sort of schemes are there? (And what is proper rich?, Inherited estate? Earning over £100k a year? Earning over NMW?)[/quote]
Top 3% probably. Which is household incomes of roughly £500k+ I think.

@HaaaaaveyoumetTed
Thanks, so barristers, CEOs of big companies etc.

I would do what I can to improved my situation or earnings in your position. Also, check your outgoings and see if you can reduce some expenses. If it is not possible now make a plan. Do not leave your money in an overdraft. We live in a country with many opportunities but we need to see the forest for the trees. May be you can’t do it now but have a plan to leave poverty. I was you in the past so hopefully you can too.

I know you mean well, but your advice seems to boil down to 'try to stop being poor' - as if most poor people have never thought of that.

Also, you don't leave your money in an overdraft - it's the bank's money that you're having to borrow, as you don't currently have enough yourself - so the exact opposite.

I agree with you that it's always good to be looking for opportunities to increase income and/or lower outgoings, but those opportunities simply won't always exist for everybody, however hard they may try.

But remember, they will charge you too if you can't manage your money. Learn to do that and you will be quids in.

I think this is the attitude that most better-off people seem to have towards the poor: that it's just that they spend recklessly and/or can't be bothered to budget sensibly. Whilst there are some like that, a great many simply have no choice.

If you had a bucket of water with absolutely no access to any more, but had to fill a bathtub to the brim with it, in order to 'earn' the essentials that you need for life - how much wisdom, prudence, care, budgeting and grasping of opportunity do you think it would take before you would succeed and could then live without worry?

Are people still having to use top up cards for electricity at hugely inflated cost?

I don’t understand how that’s even legal.

It's legal because those in charge of making the law are very much not in a position of needing to pay for their bills that way; so at best, it just doesn't register with them as 'a thing' and at worst, they simply don't care - as it's the poor folks' fault for not wanting not to be poor, or something like that.

@absolutelynotfabulous

Bailiff action following CCJs etc doesn't come out of the blue, and neither do the bailiffs on Can't Pay (usually).

The biggest irony (in case no one has already mentioned it) is bankruptcy, which costs £680. You couldn't make it up!

When I had to go bankrupt I withdrew the fee on a high interest credit card that would then get written off with the bankruptcy - if you can get the credit for the fee somehow it is ok but otherwise I agree it is crazy!

@DameCelia way more than that, and to be fair I’m thinking more people who earn money outside of being employed. I know a relative who is so wealthy they’ve been able to avoid paying any tax whatsoever by leaving the country. Something which just isn’t an option for anyone who is employed, it’s deducted at source and the more you earn the more you pay. Super Wealthy SE people can afford whole teams of accountants to maximise efficiencies and loopholes and can definitely minimise the amount they pay as they have enough to make their money work for them as opposed to working for their money in many respects.

I was thinking about this when I bought my bus pass today and I was shocked when I realised.

I pay £65 for a 28 day bus pass.

A daysaver on the local buses is £4. (basically anything more than a single ticket which is £2.20)

Assuming I use my bus pass for 20 days working and perhaps 2 weekend days I will pay about £3 a day but a person doing the same journey who cant afford the ticket upfront will pay £4... so by the end of the 22 days they have paid £88. They have now paid £23 more than me AND I still have the option to use it on the other 6 days if I want to.

So by the end of the year the person who can't afford the pass up front has spent £299 more than me for the same thing and more if they need to travel on the other 6 days.

Now that's paying to be poor and I'd never thought of it before today.

Im sorry OP that’s tough. It’s true it’s expensive to have no money.

??? Waitrose having a secret deal where if you show them your bank statement you get a 25% discount?

@MLMshouldbeillegal

I have a corporate job and get fed regularly: salads and sandwiches most days I’m in the office and plenty of dinners out.

There’s a constant supply of chocolate, biscuits and soft drinks, nights out and treats sent to my home address for various celebrations.