How would you characterize an independent woman?

[Yeswhatno]

I read/hear often women saying they are one.
I’m not sure I know what they mean about that.

What makes one independent?
What do they do/ don’t do, say?
What is their lifestyle like? Dating or not, what about marriage, can there be kids involve?

@ThisIsStartingToBoreMe

just that they don’t depend on a man to provide for them.

Or the state. If they get benefits they're not independant.

THIS^ If you take benefits from the state, you are dependent on the state, so are not "an independent woman"

I don't think it's easy to define. Currently DH pays the mortgage because I'm part time for another 18 months or so. Neither of us could cover all of the house/bills/childcare alone. But I don't feel "dependent" because I could go back full time if I had to and run a 2-bed house locally for myself and DS.

No partner, maybe kids but not dependent on family for childcare, job.

To me it means

they have their own income and don't rely on someone else for financial support
they have their own opinions and are not afraid to voice them
they do what they want to do in life rather than waiting for a man to be in tow before they can brave a party/holiday/adventure.

According to Destiny’s Child they’d be throwing their hands up at you!

I don’t think you can be “independent “ without being independent of something or someone. If you define what the woman is independent of you won’t need to disagree

Eg How would you define a financially independent woman ? One who is not dependent on others for their income be it state benefit or money her spouse gives her

How would you define an emotionally independent woman?
One who knows and speaks her own mind, does not rely on others to make decisions for her etc,

I think financial independence is an essential part of it but also someone who has the courage of her convictions and doesn't rely on others to define her.

I've known a few women though who describe themselves as "independent" despite being completely reliant on a man for money. I think they actually meant it in an "I'm a gobby cow" sense!

For me the definition is a woman who doesn't rely on a man (or another woman) financially, essentially.

There are other factors conducive to that: having your own opinions and judgements and not being overly swayed by what other people want from you.

But ultimately its about money. You can't be truly independent if you rely on someone else to support you. Your freedom is always somewhat curtailed if you do.

Because apparently being happy being single and with basic sensibilities of equality means I'm either an "independent, strong woman" or an "independent, feisty woman"

@BobbieT1999

Because apparently being happy being single and with basic sensibilities of equality means I'm either an "independent, strong woman" or an "independent, feisty woman"

The choice of adjectives is interesting there and I've come across them too. The assumption is always that if you're independent and happy being single you must be high-maintenance, bossy and argumentative. We still have a long way to go.

@TedMullins

Rightly or wrongly, in a capitalist society, independence does largely come down to what kind of lifestyle you can afford to give yourself single-handedly. That goes for everyone, men and women. Plenty of young single men with well off parents are given money for house deposits, cars etc.

I think with independence in women specifically, aside from money it is a mindset. You see so many posts on here from women who can’t assert their needs and boundaries because they put their partner and children before themselves all the time, or say they were raised to think being a woman was about seeing to everyone else before you think about yourself. An independent woman puts herself first. She would be able to support herself (and children if she has them) without her partner, has the strength to walk away from any relationship that doesn’t make her happy, asserts her needs and takes time to do things that contribute to her wellbeing. She’s not scared of the thought of living alone or moving somewhere totally new, and she doesn’t care how other people perceive her. She’d rather be be true to herself than be nice all the time. She wouldn’t mind if she left a relationship and didn’t meet another partner, or was long-term single. She indulges her whims and thinks her needs are important. She would expect her partner to do 50% minimum parenting, life admin and emotional labour.

Love this!

@thepeopleversuswork oh too (painfully) true! I've heard "bossy" many times and if I had a £1 for everytime someone called me (read: assumed) "high maintenance" I'd be an incredibly wealthy woman!

Actually, I'm pretty laid back

Many of us are financially independent yet emotionally dependent: often on our children.

I guess another question to ask is why is Society these days obsessed with everyone being independent and alone. Society in the past used to be more centred on communities and families working together. This was seen as the idea to aspire to and still is jn some countries.

Nowadays, women are supposed to be independent in every way, I.e. do everything and somehow be able to have their wage cover staggering childcare costs and bills on their own. Many women regardless of what that do simply cannot afford to be a truly independent women free from a man or the state. So what do we do, just devalue them because society is obsessed with independence?

I think the skill of families and communities all working together and supporting each other is far too undervalued. None of us could or would exist without being part of entangled relationships with others.

I think of myself as an independent woman. I am

• single
• own house
• own career/pension
• raise my child without help from ex

After trying for years to find a relationship that worked, I have a life where I am not bullied or pressured daily to live/socialise as someone else wants.
Being independent means being able to make my own choices - everything from home & car to career to food to how I spend my leisure time, and not be criticised.

And it's such a relief.

I agree and I think those of us who are older and dealing with complex situations involving frail, elderly parents sometimes raise a weary eyebrow at the repeated words on the need to be completely financially independent and work full time.
Some of these threads make women feel awful about themselves.

In response to Heartoverheadheadoverheart.

It’s about being independent financially and emotionally. Not having to rely on anyone for anything, including happiness.

It’s a sexist phrase as we never hear of ‘independent men’, this is just the default.

I’m with @Heartoverheadheadoverheart on this one.
I’m in a professional job, it’s my name alone on the house deeds and mortgage, I drive my own car, decide what and when I eat, I go on holiday on my own if that’s what I need, I have enough savings to weather life for 6 month without an income. I don’t need to ask permission to spend any money, I don’t feel guilty buying a nice perfume. I can hold a conversation in any social setting, I have a good education and own interests.
Equally important to me is having my own tribe. Sacrificing my day off to take my friend to a hospital appointment or painting her new house, help a friend move house etc is absolutely not a chore. Taking a few days off and flying over to my cousin after she’s had her baby to help with cleaning and washing and cooking, again, not a problem.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Oh, and with all my independence, I really don’t mind calling friends or family and saying ‘put another plate at the table, I’ll join you, I’m tired and stressed and I need to come round for some TLC’.

Often circumstances force women onto this path, its not always a choice initinally, but once you have mastered it, you lose the desire to revert back.
It comes at a price, most independant women l know have been tested to the absolute limits by life, there are much easier routes, so l hold them in very high regard.

You never hear of an independent man

You may not but I have heard the expression plenty of times. Non independence such as iving at home/flat share above a certain age, not having a 'career' or being financially solvent, not having their own interests or strong social circles is seen as a negative.

I consider myself independent - I own my house (in my sole name) and I am the sole breadwinner. If my husband left/died it would make no difference to my life in practical terms, although obviously I would miss him.

You never hear of an independent man

Of course you don't because most men don't depend on someone else's income so it doesn't bear pointing out.

The whole point about the phrase "independent woman" is that until recently it was rare enough to make you a curiosity. Even now independent women are a minority. In the past they were vanishingly rare: if you weren't dependent on your husband's money you had almost certainly inherited it from your dad as there weren't many legitimate/respectable ways for women to make a lot of money.

Of course is still carries pejorative overtones for a lot of people even today: hence the comment about "feisty" or "bossy" because a lot of people see "independent" as code for "she couldn't keep a man happy" (not a bad thing in my view but still something which a lot of women find frightening).