To wonder if life was better under a Labour government?

[Wasloafbetter]

Or are people looking back with rose tinted specs?

I started teaching in the Blair years and I found it pretty awful, although how much of that was down to my own lack of experience and how much was down to government policies is hard to say.

I’m wondering if people are looking back nostalgically (have seen this on a thread this morning where apparently the 80s were a great time for freedom of expression with no pressure to conform, which don’t tally with my memories at all) or whether life was better then.

I’m 42, by the way - was 17 when Blair was made PM.

They aren’t the only two choices though, are they? It doesn’t need to be so polarised. That’s how right wing media likes to prevent Labour but I think many people are a mixture of both positions.

My concern is that a whole sector of people who may have made considerable gains in housing, assets, etc who would traditionally vote Labour will now vote Lib Dem / green as they don’t really want the structural reforms they once applauded now they have so much to lose. By casting a technically void vote, the conservatives will stay in. I wish Rory Stewart had won.

I was living abroad when the conservatives were elected in 2010 (I moved overseas in 2009), and when I returned to live in the UK a few years into their term things were palpably worse. Even visibly worse – one of the most striking things was the marked increase in rough sleepers.

@Railk

I usually vote for Labour and would do now if there was a GE.

But I don't think things would improve massively if they got in now. That's because I think Covid and Brexit have made the UK pretty unfixable in the short term (ie 100 years) - so I think any government is going to struggle to make any difference.

The sleaze, lies, gaslighting and all the other shit the Tories do every minute of every day is just background wallpaper.

The UK is heading for the dustbin though - if we're not there already. We'll have no NHS. No state education system to speak of soon. In 10 years time I think education and the NHS will be totally trashed.

Our reputation and trading across the world - yes Tories are trashing that too.

Actually Labour could do better because nobody could do worse. And actually keeping things in equilibrium now would be better than the deliberate trashing the Tories seem to be intent on inflicting on this country.

So, in answer to your question OP - things would be better under Labour now. Alot.

Yep.

It was just as awful. I was homeless as an abused teenager because a Labour Government decided that I was too young for support from the homeless department, and too old to go into care. Social services said I'd fallen down "the black hole" so the authorities were well aware of the impossibility of this situation and there being no provision for people in my situation at all but did the local Labour MP care? Nope.

Ironic that they had this "education, education, education" mantra when they got elected but schools got progressively worse (I went to many) and their social services policy was to shrug, say to a very vulnerable and mentally ill, abused teenager "oh, yeah, well maybe you should get pregnant then they'll give you a council flat. If you want to continue studying then there'll be no financial help."

I was still in year 11.

All politicians are equally clueless. I suppose the "better" ones are utterly clueless, ignorant and incompetent but at least not deliberately evil. But it's a hard distinction to draw given we cannot see inside their minds.

@ThousandsOfTulips I’m very sorry to hear that, Tulip. It very much echoes my fears of what was going on in areas that seemed to be getting huge funding to assist the most vulnerable but instead employed lots of support staff that didn’t have the skills to recognise 1) this isn’t an ok situation therefore adults have to do something and 2) there are always alternatives. I am stunned at people professional g this when they are so limited in their knowledge of what can be done and what resources are out there.

I hope you have a good life now x

All I remember of Labour before 1979 was the power cuts and rubbish pilling up due to strikes.

While we were poor my parents didn’t qualify for benefits snd my father’s work was stable and not affected by the miners strike in the 80’s. The only thing that really affected us from Thatcher’s government was the change from rates to council tax, and my parents benefited from the right to buy scheme.

I was living alone and working full time when Blair took office. While it didn’t make any difference to my situation, both my sister - single parent, and my father- pensioner, were worse off financially immediately.

I agree that once they are in power it makes no difference which party because it’s all about them and their power trip.

[quote Choirgirl2021]@ThousandsOfTulips I’m very sorry to hear that, Tulip. It very much echoes my fears of what was going on in areas that seemed to be getting huge funding to assist the most vulnerable but instead employed lots of support staff that didn’t have the skills to recognise 1) this isn’t an ok situation therefore adults have to do something and 2) there are always alternatives. I am stunned at people professional g this when they are so limited in their knowledge of what can be done and what resources are out there.

I hope you have a good life now x[/quote]
Thank you. I totally agree - money thrown at things to make a political point but spent so unwisely when so many inexpensive things could make a huge difference. No planning, no strategy. It's been the same with pretty much all public services in the UK for as long as I remember.

Yes fortunately I ignored their advice and studied for over a decade after that, while working as well. It was a very difficult time but I am very lucky now that I have a great life, a great job and two wonderful DC. I was however massively scarred mentally by the experience of the people who were meant to help me behaving like this at that time. And I am very aware that so many others who fell into the same "black hole" probably never made it out. It was a very good metaphor for it really because to work your way out of it pretty much required you to somehow defy the laws of physics.

And ironically, every year now I pay probably 10x the tax that it would have cost them to fund me properly through my education, so that I could become a net contributor. Rather than making is massively unlikely I'd get this far, and even though I have because of the lack of any help it has had a huge impact on my health so I'll not be able to continue to contribute like that for as long as I might have otherwise.

It pains me to see the tax I pay not used how it should be - fine to pay it but want it to be spent on evidence-based policies that work - and to see us under every colour of rosette shooting ourselves in both feet economically and socially at every opportunity (e.g. no funding for preventative measures, false economies on health and education that cost far more later on, Brexit, etc). It's sad but I am not sure what can be done when most people do not appear to vote in a rational way or actually research their choices beforehand.

And I know many people feel like that now. That despair. Seeing no way through and that it is all stacked against you.

I suppose my point is that it was just like that in the Tony Blair years, too. Want to get an education and contribute? No, we won't help you, at all. Go and live in a terrifying place that is damp and has no heating installed and eat nothing for days sometimes as a teenager, all for the audacity of wanting to study rather than become a teenage mother as advised by SS.

I think those that thought those were great years must have been oblivious to the existence of people like me back then. Just as they are oblivious to those struggling now.

I was a housing worker in 97; I voted Labour for the first time, believing that they would withdraw, or reduce the Right to Buy. They didn’t. I also remember the outrage of no cap on housing benefits, when non working families were housed in expensive, private housing, whilst working families struggled to find affordable housing.

[quote Choirgirl2021]@Railk do you really think things are that bad ?

Perhaps I’ve had my head buried. I was in Europe during the 2008 crash. Things were so much worse there. We may downgrade but we are still preferable to lots of other, closer places. It’s often only apparent when you live there.[/quote]
Which part of Europe? That could be Romania, it could be Germany. Talking about “Europe” is a bit meaningless.

It was certainly better for people with disabilities.

all for the audacity of wanting to study rather than become a teenage mother as advised by SS
Thousandsoftulips it beggars belief that those who were supposed to be helping you actually gave that advice. It’s really shocking and there were probably many young women who followed it.

It was stratospherically better for the teaching of music, and the creative arts generally, in schools - and in the wider community. Things reached a crisis point very quickly after 2010, reflecting the new political priorities.

Extremely blinkered and shortsighted view of the purpose of education and the ‘value’ of the creative arts.

@UndertheCedartree

Personally, life was better for me. My DS was young and there was so much support. We had a lovely Children's centre. Lots going on, groups, courses etc. There was a great breastfeeding group. Rates of breastfeeding actually increased in our area. The Centre did so much outreach work as well it was so valuable. Every school holiday there was a brilliant timetable of activities for school children. As soon as the Tories got in they started trying to shut it down. We fought and fought but eventually they got their way. I don't know that there are any Children's centres in our town anymore. There were other ways life was better too but that was a big one.

This is true for me too. I use the NHS a fair bit. That worked beautifully under Labour. Noticeably very good and I appreciated it.

I’ve always worked in schools in various ways and they thrived under Labour too. I trained to be a teacher at that time and was impressed.

Had babies under Labour government and as poster above said we had sure-start etc loads of activities and support. All this has gone now.

To whoever asked if I think things are really that bad now: yes I do. So much has been trashed by the Tories and they are intent on destroying more and more.

We will end up with bare bones if this carries on. They’ve been in power for too too long.

I think the problem is the Tories have been in government so long we’ve all forgotten what life used to be like.

Using external parameters, life expectancy was better in deprived areas under Labour because there were support networks. The area I was volunteering in at the time had SureStart, subsidised local authority gym, subsidised fruit and veg market, more outreach work, more support for parents. Outreach was doubling year-on-year. I know there was some increased paperwork around those initiatives but it was worth it - they caught lots of families who would have otherwise fallen through the cracks.

Since technology had not been embraced in the same way and social media was in its infancy, women were not subjected to daily death and rape threats for expressing an opinion or being in the public eye or just simply for existing. Instead there was a real impetus around equality programmes for women and other oft-neglected minority groups.

No

According to the news on the radio this morning the Gov is attempting to tackle the drugs problem - about time - but I don't think any Gov has had a decent strategy for that previously.

So, it really depends on your specific circumstances. Many with young children say it was better but what about the teen/young adults for that time and older adults?

It seems so many good initiatives were started and I think they probably tackled the hidden poor and many ethnic communities who had been completely locked out of the money/education system. That’s good. Perhaps on balance it was better ?

Haven't read the full thread but one of my most acute memories was the A/AS level marking scandal in which the government ordered examiners to artificially downgrade papers because they kept being hammered for results being too good.

My AS levels were affected but fortunately I was able to retake them.

Students in the year above me lost uni places though.

That aside, in general there were a lot of things Labour did that, when you look back, ended up having terrible unforeseen consequences eg their push to get 50% of kids to uni, PFI schemes etc.

Before the change from Labour it was easier to get a hospital appointment and there were more A&E’s. Within months of the Tories taking over A&E’s were being closed and the NHS has been increasingly struggling ever since. Unfortunately Corbyn and the extreme left did for the Labour Party and gave Johnson an open goal.

@Choirgirl2021

They aren’t the only two choices though, are they? It doesn’t need to be so polarised. That’s how right wing media likes to prevent Labour but I think many people are a mixture of both positions.

My concern is that a whole sector of people who may have made considerable gains in housing, assets, etc who would traditionally vote Labour will now vote Lib Dem / green as they don’t really want the structural reforms they once applauded now they have so much to lose. By casting a technically void vote, the conservatives will stay in. I wish Rory Stewart had won.

You're assuming that everyone votes for what they can get for themselves. As another poster said the better off isn't affected that much by either party but I vote for the kind of country I want to live in. Good NHS, education, social care, looking after less fortunate people when in need, better funded police, public transport, the list goes on. By improving these we all benefit in the long run. You won't get this kind of society with the Tories, they fundamentally believe in the survival of the fittest.

I think it’s too simplistic to look back on a period of your own life to see if things have got better. Life has got materially better for me as I’ve got older, across Labour and Conservative governments, but that’s more to do with life stages and career than politics.

What about wider society?

The first time I remember seeing homeless people on the streets locally was when John Major’s Conservative government introduced “Care in the community” (i. e. shut down lots of institutional housing and let vulnerable people largely fend for themselves).

Under Labour, you stopped seeing homeless people in my city. Funding was directed to programmes to get people into housing.

Under Cameron and austerity, they came back. Under Johnson, it’s worse than ever.

Public investment in transport, hospitals and schools was noticeably improved under Labour. Public investment stagnates under Conservative governments.