We need to make it illegal to hit children

[Poetrypatty]

AIBU to think this should be done ASAP. I'm so annoyed that in our country it's still legal. It's not legal to hit adults. It just seems plain wrong to me.

The op hasn't said it stops child abuse. She's said it's wrong to hit children and should be illegal and 82% have voted that they agree with her.

@gsaoej

I am not sure about this.

I think that there can be situations where a smack (on a place such as the arm or leg) is actually warranted. Such an example would be a child of 3/4/5 ish removing a car seat harness whilst the parent is driving. And this kind of smack would be a short sting designed to shock the child so that they understood the severity and dangerousness of what they had done. A simple "please don't do that" is no different to saying that same phrase for something very minor such as leaving a snack wrapper on the floor.

I wouldn't consider that assault, I'd consider it a protection against the child being seriously injured.

In case anyone thinks I'm a monster who hits little kids, my kids are teens who are bigger than me. And aren't getting hit!

I knew there would be an answer like this - I think I predicted in my post that ‘sharp shock’ would be used. Parents who hit their kids love phrases like tap, shock, last resort.

Hitting your child is bad parenting. Do you think your child is the only one ever to have removed their car seat straps? Or the rest of us are just driving around with kids jumping around the car while we weakly say ‘oh no Amelia please oh no what can I do?’

@dementedma

It makes no difference to abused children. DH works with children in care. Being hit is the least of their worries. ( and no, I'm neither condoning nor making light of it) but illegal things still happen. Making them illegal doesnt stop these wee ones being starved, beaten, burnt with cigarettes and sexually abused. I'll stop because you dont want the stuff that happens to these kids in your head. Smacking is the least of it

Don’t know what point you’re trying to make here. It’s ok to smack your child because other children get burned with cigarettes? So then surely it’s fine to burn your child because some children are murdered?

It’s not okay to do something bad because others do worse. Otherwise we’d be on the relationships board saying ‘your husband slapped you? So? Some husbands murder their wives or break their bones.’

It will not solve anything at all.

Yes agree

And it would reduce violence. Any snack is painful to a child.

In my many years on mumsnet this has popped up a few times and people’s attitudes HAVE changed. People used to say it’s not a big deal etc but not any more, so changing attitudes and making something culturally unacceptable does work

Smack not snack 🙄

It's been illegal in Sweden since the 70s and It's massively reduced how many kids get hit so has been a success. It doesn't seem to have turned them into massive hooligans either

National bans on smacking results in much less youth violence

blogs.bmj.com/bmjopen/2018/10/15/national-bans-on-slapping-children-linked-to-less-youth-violence/

Are people actually arguing that because some people still do illegal things, there should be no laws?

There is never an excuse to hit a child. End off.

You are teaching them violence and that to get what you want you can push/ slap someone into submission.

If as adults we are prosecuted for hitting, slapping or pushing another adult, as it is all assault, then why are we allowed in the eyes of the law to do this to children.

@Toddlerteaplease

It will not solve anything at all.

You’re wrong about that. It makes hitting your child illegal, so parents who assault their children to teach them a lesson will have to find another way. Or break the law.

@Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss

I don’t think it would help really. Parents are already not allowed to hit a child in a way that leaves any kind of mark, so if there is ‘proof’ of the hitting it becomes illegal. If there is no proof (ie no bruise or red mark) then how would they be sure a parent hit a child anyway? It’s socially unacceptable so it’s not generally happening out and about. I think we would be better off looking at the factors that lead people to not coping, free parenting classes and better funding for sure start, social services and early help.

Yes I agree.

I grew up in the 80s when prettt much everyone got smacked. I never did. I remember my parents having 'lively discussions' with their friends about smacking children (the friends were in favour).
My dad, who had been to a strict 1940s boarding school and been beaten/ smacked etc said all it ever taught him was that he couldn't trust his caregivers and that nobody would stand up for him.
Following that train of thought, making smacking illegal might:
A) empower children with the knowledge that being physically disciplined is wrong and not normal
B) make parents who were smacked themselves look for better methods of discipline
C) make a clear line so that if you are aware of a child being smacked/ hit, you can't absolve yourself of the responsibility of reporting by saying it is just a different way of doing things

The worst child abuse cases don't necessarily involve much hitting anyway. Being starved, locked away and deprived of hygiene and warmth seem to be the end game of extreme child abuse. The starting point is being made invisible by adults who find the child annoying in some way.
The risk is resources being further tied up by reports of children being smacked, while the silent terror of children like Arthur gets ignored.
I would think forcibly restraining a child is as bad as it gets.

I thought it was tbh

I thought it was tbh

It’s illegal to hit people… the law doesn’t distinguish between children or adults. What the law does have is a defence of lawful chastisement/ punishment which applies in some circumstances. A parent could still be arrested and interviewed and asked to account for their behaviour ( it doesn’t necessarily follow that as a parent your actions are automatically reasonable).

Also: prostitution is not illegal in this country.

@Pumperthepumper

Another way? Like locking them in their room with no food?

I'm harping on this point because many (most) of the worst cases of abuse seem to fall along these lines. Kicking, shaking, and being hit with weapons aside it seems rare for serious harm to come to kids from smacking with a hand. Being forcibly restrained and deprived of food as punishment are much worse. And not unheard of generations ago.
My concern is an obsessive fixation on one issue can blind you to a bigger picture.

The logic of banning smacking seems founded in a slippery slope argument, whereas the worst violence against children is not even beating, it's the obliterating of the child's existence. On this basis time outs and naughty steps are actually far more dangerous.

I agree. But if you think this will stop abusive parents you are deluded. Do you think these people give a shit about the law? Oh I was going to hit my child but I'd better not, it's illegal. Please

[quote Grayskelly]@Pumperthepumper

Another way? Like locking them in their room with no food?

I'm harping on this point because many (most) of the worst cases of abuse seem to fall along these lines. Kicking, shaking, and being hit with weapons aside it seems rare for serious harm to come to kids from smacking with a hand. Being forcibly restrained and deprived of food as punishment are much worse. And not unheard of generations ago.
My concern is an obsessive fixation on one issue can blind you to a bigger picture.

The logic of banning smacking seems founded in a slippery slope argument, whereas the worst violence against children is not even beating, it's the obliterating of the child's existence. On this basis time outs and naughty steps are actually far more dangerous.[/quote]
But you’re still conflating two different things. Banning assault on a child means children who would have been routinely smacked by otherwise loving parents won’t be.

It’s not to stop child abuse. It’s to clear up the grey area of ‘justifiable assault’.

It wont stop the abuse. I grew up in a house with a father who thought nothing of walloping us until we were teenagers . Ill never forget the day my grandmother asked him if he hit us anymore and he replied no theyll hit me back.. ive chosen to adopt the approach that slapping or hitting a child is illegal whether it is or not. I wont be that parent . I dont want my child asking me (like i did my father) why did you hit me ( his response was often because you were thinking about it.. i have to this day no idea what i was supposed to be thinking about and i realise it was pure control on his part with a wider picture of mental health issues on my mothers part and an inabilty on his to parent appropriately alone when she wasnt capable)

@hangrylady

I agree. But if you think this will stop abusive parents you are deluded. Do you think these people give a shit about the law? Oh I was going to hit my child but I'd better not, it's illegal. Please

No. Nobody thinks it will stop abusive parents.

@TheVolturi

Well drugs, prostitution and rape are illegal but they still happen.

Prostitution is not illegal in the UK. (In Northern Ireland it is illegal to buy sex, but not illegal to sell it.)

For those that say it will make no difference, have you any objections to making it illegal to hit children? Most posters don't seem to finish the sentence " it will make no difference therefore......."

I would make it illegal. Whether it makes any difference to the amount of abuse is a different conversation.

@IncompleteSenten

Are people actually arguing that because some people still do illegal things, there should be no laws?

Yes they do seem to be!

It sends out a message and also children should have full protection under the law, so it's the right thing to do.

Thanks for the link MuguetRose