to be shocked at the lengths some men will go to to access vulnerable women?

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

A paramedic who raped a patient and sexually assaulted another in the ambulance has been struck off. In the BBC article it says

Police believed his career choice was "influenced by the access... to potentially vulnerable" people.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59518773

For some reason, it has never occurred to me that anyone could go into paramedic training with an eye to being able to commit sexual assault. Perhaps it should have, but it seemed too intensive and pressured a career choice for any man to have the chance. But it notes that one way he did it was by sending colleagues away.

Wheeler sent away two other paramedics who arrived together in an ambulance, assuring them he had things under control.

I think that this is something we should take on board- no-one should be above suspicion and you have to be willing to think the unthinkable when a colleague wants to be alone with someone vulnerable.

@Chasingaftermidnight

I don’t think I was naive previously about the lengths some men will go to for access to victims - priests, doctors, teachers, etc. But two events in the last year have still completely shocked me. This case is one of them. The murder of Sarah Everard is the other.

I now view any lone male as a possible threat to women, regardless of his uniform or ID card.

We need to move away from ALL stereotypes of ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and that includes sex based stereotypes too. We should all be more vigilant regardless of someone’s sex or occupation or religious beliefs. We’ve all read about cases of doctors or nurses or nuns or priests or nursery workers or carers etc doing terrible things to vulnerable people and people who would normally be considered lower in society making incredible acts of kindness. We can’t as a society be pointing fingers at ‘all men’ or ‘all people with tattoos’ or ‘all benefits claimants’ being the bogeyman.

@daretodenim

There's an idea that any medical person is some kind of angel. They are heroes and apart from one or two really awful ones (Shipman, the nurse who killed many patients) the rest are somehow superhuman.

I have twice been sexually assaulted by doctors treating me. A few years apart and in different hospital/clinics. It's hard to tell people because it's shocking that it happened once, but unbelievable that it happened twice. Sometime I wonder myself if I even misunderstood something but then I recall two dr friends I told who were crystal clear that it was assault.

The cruelest thing about this abuse is that it makes it almost impossible to go to a new dr or hospital. There are times when I should have gone to A&E much earlier (as I was told when I finally went) but preferred to stay in debilitating pain than put myself at the hands of a doctor.

I have been assaulted by two doctors too. Both have been brought to account, one is in prison for 17 years, the other was "disciplined". So it is entirely believable.

It definitely affects access to healthcare. Is there any way at all you can access help?

OP's point is to be shocked at the lengths some men go.

Effectively she is saying NAMALT.

She then says no one should be above suspicion. That includes women.

I think what I'm thinking is that Anyone Can Be Like This.

Emergency services seemed too intensive and high-pressured a role to me before for this to happen, but I was wrong.

Yes predatory males will go to extreme lengths to access their victims. I'm surprised you're surprised OP! Teachers/swim coaches/priests - so so many stories of abuse by these sorts while I was growing up. Clearly no coincidence that they end up in these professions. It's strategic.

@EggAndHasBeans

I know of a physiotherapist who sexually assaulted a young woman with about 25 people on the other side of the curtain in a busy clinic.

I think MNers would be shocked if they knew just how many of these creeps are in our lives on a daily basis.

I worked with a doctor, we thought he was a bit eccentric and odd but probably harmless .

When he ended up being MY doctor on another ward, he sexually assaulted me.

They’re everywhere.

However when I went to the NHS they said no way that actually happened - it did . But because they shrugged it off and I’m too scared to go the police he’s still a practicing doctor . Worked in fucking gynaecology of all places .

@talesoftheunexploded

A GP at my surgery wrote a very inappropriate record about me using language that wouldn't be out of place in a porn mag. I complained to the practice - it wasn't upheld and the response was utterly insulting. Escalated it to Ombudsman - again not upheld as said GP is "entitled to his opinions". Complained to Information Commissioners Office - not upheld as GDPR doesn't cover discrimination or medical opinions. Reported to GMC - wouldn't even bother to investigate although they did say they understood why I might be upset

I've sought legal advice and the GP and the practice hold all the cards with the medical defence union and unlimited legal representation to back them up.

When the establishment collude and condone this behaviour it provides fertile ground for abuse.

What did he say?

(Purely nosey- ignore if you don't want to say)

@HighlandPony We need to move away from ALL stereotypes of ‘good’ or ‘bad’ and that includes sex based stereotypes too.

The problem with that opinion is that laws and safeguarding are made not on 'stereotypes' but on STATISTICAL FACT. 97%, that is ninety-seven percent, of all sexual assaults are committed by men.

97% . This is NOT about 'stereotypes' it s as statistical EVIDENCE.

*is

I was shocked reading this

But I know the truth about men wanting to access vulnerable potential victims and choosing professions that allow them to but it still shocks me when I read stories like this because it hits home how vulnerable being a girl/woman is

I am still shocked by attitudes at work towards how women should keep themselves safe and I work in MH all the talks and training we have but that doesn’t shift deep rooted attitudes

Be interesting men discussing this and how many would question what the women were doing at the time

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

OP's point is to be shocked at the lengths some men go.

Effectively she is saying NAMALT.

She then says no one should be above suspicion. That includes women.

I think what I'm thinking is that Anyone Can Be Like This.

Emergency services seemed too intensive and high-pressured a role to me before for this to happen, but I was wrong.

No job is 100% all the time. Within any ambo service, and healty service, there will be frequent flyers (drink, drugs, MH etc) and even without that people can be at their lowest when they come in contact with a predator in these services. The vulnerability itself can skew what would otherwise be a strong protective personal boundaries. As some posters have pointed out they can't believe it happened and are unsure about how deal with it at the time it happens.

Being in a profession which rely on a person's good character is also a protection. False and frivolous allegations are probably more frequent than people realise. The crews deal with horrendous accidents and violent patients.
Sometimes getting the job done overrides doing it by the book so work practice needs interpersonal trust.
Then the instinct of being protective of someone who likely share PTSD inducing work life will be much more intense that 2 people working in an office. The consequence of internal reporting means that work colleagues would want to be sure in their belief and that management would be supportive of the whistle blowing.

Sucessful predators have (or develop) good people skills, so aiming to being likable in a position of respect when that is great shield, should not be unexpected.

OhWhyNot
I am still shocked by attitudes at work towards how women should keep themselves safe

Women should 100% put themselves first when it comes to feeling unsafe.
They should not be afraid of hurting someone's feeling or causing the other person embarrassment, but so often they are stripped of that defence and harmed by other's actions.
So much female socialising is around being nice/kind and not listening to their own instincts.
That their "responsibility" for their actions must be limited by the effects it could have on the potential offender.
Safeguarding should be built around the most vulnerable (who can't act) to protect agains the most devious who will act.

The actions of other people is never the victim's responsibility. People should not mitigate for the offender using the victim's action or inaction. But rather ask what was the offender doing.
Note the difference in 'action' words
"Jane was unconscious."
"Jack noted that Jane was unconscious."

Some victim blaming is a type of self protection as "I would not end up in situation X". Anyone can end up in a bad situation what's important is if another person made the situation better or worse.

Well that is how I put it to colleagues

Rather than question what the women may have been doing question what the men are doing

The point I was making is that these opinions are so deep rooted that they don’t shift even after safe guarding training

They don’t shift as they don’t want to change it doesn’t impact them

Jimmy Savile raised MILLIONS for children's charities, so he could stay close to children.

No profession should be placed on a pedestal. My grandma tells of awful abuse carried out by nuns in a facility for ill children she attended. Then there are the countless reports of sexual abuse by priests, doctors, teachers, scout leaders… the list goes on and on.

Even if a person is convicted it doesn’t always prevent them finding a job in a position of trust. I remember a teacher telling us that he’d never been DBS checked despite working at my school for close to 10 years (I’m only 30 so this wasn’t in the distant past either).

@howdoibegintodeal

However when I went to the NHS they said no way that actually happened - it did . But because they shrugged it off and I’m too scared to go the police he’s still a practicing doctor . Worked in fucking gynaecology of all places .

Ugh yuk I had one of those in Hammersmith hospital!!!! Kept commenting on how much unprotected sex I'd had and clearly your cervix has been bashed about a bit 😱😱

I sat up and said "what are you talking about?" That's a dreadful thing to say to a young woman. He got a bit shirty with me, so I left.
I asked the receptionist if everyone found him creepy and they all just looked at each like I wasn't the first to say that. Never went back he kept writing to my gp saying how serious it was and I need my cervix cauterised!
I went to a different smear test and it was and has been negative for years. Asked the midwife and obstetrician if my cervix looked normal a few years later when giving birth. And they both said it's perfectly healthy!
Blood weirdo I hope he ended up in prison.. god alone knows what he did to other women

@ponkydonkey - bloody hell, thats awful . I seriously believe its endemic for some reason . I always remember having to go for a cystoscopy (camera into bladder) under anaesthetic and I asked the surgeon how long it would take .

He started off by telling me he'd put my legs up and apart .

I've never wanted more to cancel an operation - in the end I did it, but I remember feeling horrendous about the whole thing.

The first doctor I will go to the police about one day, Rape Crisis said they would support me when I do, I just don't know when. Thats my thought too, what's he doing to others, there was a female student in the room with me the first time and I remember she told him to stop and said she'd support me in complaining, but I couldn't .

@howdoibegintodeal I remover the midwife asking if I remembered his name when I told she said he'd left under unusual circumstances and she thinks I had a lucky escape by refusing to go back 😱 it was the same hospital

I've bad 'minor' run ins with male hcp's and I've been medically assaulted by a male consultant. I won't see male hcp's at all alone now and will only take one specific person who knows how to advocate for me if I need it.

I've not spoken to one woman (at things like baby groups/mum friends etc) who hasn't had a weird/uncomfortable/completely wrong experience with a male hcp.

Oddly though, I read a thread about a woman wanting to specifically request a female nurse for a smear and she was told by quite a few people that she was being ridiculous and discriminatory. One person called her 'hysterical'.

If we're not being assaulted, we're being told to stop being hysterical when we are worried about being assaulted 🙃

I always comment at DBS time that it is a "hasn't been caught yet" check. I haven't done anything, but just because someone's DBS comes back clear it doesn't mean that they haven't committed any offences.

It always amazes me that people will think that no one will be pretend to be transgender or put on a dress to gain access to vulnerable people because 1) why would they? And 2) It seems like a lot of hassle. Yet here we have someone who trains as a paramedic to get that access.

Give a loophole and it will be used, whether that is identifying alongside your victim, forming an intimate relationship or working in a profession with a veneer of trust.

There needs to be middle ground though between thinking everyone in a certain profession is a saint and feeling you have to view everyone with suspicion.because the bad doesn’t cancel out the good.

There are undoubtedly people, both men and women, who go into certain professions because those professions give them access to their victims. Beverly Allet and the other (female) nurse who has recently been convicted of murdering babies, Vanessa George who presumably went into a profession in a child’s nursery as she was a paedophile.

Harold shipman was a GP who had an immense amount of trust in his community while murdering his patients,

The number of priests and nuns who both sexually physically and emotionally abused countless children over the years.

But along with those there are people who are in those professions because those are the professions they want to be in, to do good.

I have spent a lot of time in hospital, and I have never been in an appropriate situation with anyone. And where I have had to be treated/examined by male nurses they have always asked if I would prefer a female. All the doctors and nurses who have literally saved my life have been male, I won’t take that away from them because of some abhorrent characters who misuse their place in those professions to carry out their hideous acts.

A school friend had a boyfriend significantly older than her.
She was 14, he was a paramedic.

Thinking about it, a paramedic would be a perfect job for a predatory male. You're seen as a respectable medical professional and have access to vulnerable people, without the years of training/intelligence/money required to be a doctor. Not surprising at all really.