to be shocked at the lengths some men will go to to access vulnerable women?

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

A paramedic who raped a patient and sexually assaulted another in the ambulance has been struck off. In the BBC article it says

Police believed his career choice was "influenced by the access... to potentially vulnerable" people.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59518773

For some reason, it has never occurred to me that anyone could go into paramedic training with an eye to being able to commit sexual assault. Perhaps it should have, but it seemed too intensive and pressured a career choice for any man to have the chance. But it notes that one way he did it was by sending colleagues away.

Wheeler sent away two other paramedics who arrived together in an ambulance, assuring them he had things under control.

I think that this is something we should take on board- no-one should be above suspicion and you have to be willing to think the unthinkable when a colleague wants to be alone with someone vulnerable.

No. But there are bloody horrible people in all walks of life. Not just men either. Harold shipman was a doctor. Beverly allitt was a paediatric nurse. I’ve seen some god awful carers and I’ve known some of them do despicable things to vulnerable people. Sex or occupation doesn’t automatically make someone good. I have a client, a polio survivor in his nineties, who is treated with more respect and compassion by his window cleaner than his GP.

I know of a physiotherapist who sexually assaulted a young woman with about 25 people on the other side of the curtain in a busy clinic.

I think MNers would be shocked if they knew just how many of these creeps are in our lives on a daily basis.

That's so horrific @talesoftheunexploded ! You should go to the media, and the public shame and pressure that will be brought onto the practice, Ombudsman, union etc would see that justice is done, I am sure. And you should then be entitled to compensation for the hurt.

Years ago I was warned about a GP, by his colleague. He said 'just remember you don't have to consent to intimate examinations. Always ask why and then say you want a female GP to examine you'. The way he said it made me realize that his colleague was a creep. I think sadly some people do join professions with ulterior motives and as we expect HCP to touch our bodies intimately on some occasions they get away with awful behaviour for a long time. Which is why I want a biological woman to examine me intimately. I just don't know what goes through a man's head.

I'm always surprised at the naivete of people who think there is a limit to the effort predators will make to access people to abuse. A friend of mine told me on the first day of their social worker training the students were told that within each cohort there would be, on average, between 1 and 3 predators training just to gain access to vulnerable people.

People need to be more aware than ever, there is a big push to destigmatize paedophilia. A professor in an American University has recently been suspended for putting out a video calling for just that. The claim is that noMAP's (non offending minor attracted people) are less likely to seek help controlling their impulses if society judges them, remember to "be kind"! It's just another way of eroding safeguarding. MAP's would also like to be added the the LGBTIA++ community, the say they have a valid sexuality which does no harm if they don't act on it. "Love is love" and "age is just a number" are the slogans used to normalise this stuff.

@talesoftheunexploded

A GP at my surgery wrote a very inappropriate record about me using language that wouldn't be out of place in a porn mag. I complained to the practice - it wasn't upheld and the response was utterly insulting. Escalated it to Ombudsman - again not upheld as said GP is "entitled to his opinions". Complained to Information Commissioners Office - not upheld as GDPR doesn't cover discrimination or medical opinions. Reported to GMC - wouldn't even bother to investigate although they did say they understood why I might be upset

I've sought legal advice and the GP and the practice hold all the cards with the medical defence union and unlimited legal representation to back them up.

When the establishment collude and condone this behaviour it provides fertile ground for abuse.

What about going to the papers, Twitter etc?

I can totally see why you wouldn’t want to though.

I think all the saying anyone can be bad of whatever professions, male or female etc are missing the point, OP’s point is about men who actively go into professions to abuse women.

During my teacher training, specifically safeguarding it was highlighted that people may become teachers specifically because of the easy access to children. Highlighted as in don't be worried/hesitant about reporting a colleague if you have any concerns at all. Always better to report just in case etc.

@GreenLunchBox

Not sure why people are shocked at this. Look at child abuse in the Catholic church

Not just the Catholic Church, all churches. All organisations with men in leadership roles.

@tallduckandhandsome

I think all the saying anyone can be bad of whatever professions, male or female etc are missing the point, OP’s point is about men who actively go into professions to abuse women.

OP's point is to be shocked at the lengths some men go.

Effectively she is saying NAMALT.

She then says no one should be above suspicion. That includes women.

My ex was and is in a very trusting profession. - access to children daily - he hit me and my eldest back in 2014 - he denied it. I had a suspected broken arm she was 7. He bruised her back - police weren’t interested as it was a ‘domestic’ hospital recorded an assault on me. He has no convictions as a result. 2017 we were given a life long restraining order to protect us - he appealed in 2021 and it was lifted (the restraining order was given due to his behaviour at contact etc )

There's an idea that any medical person is some kind of angel. They are heroes and apart from one or two really awful ones (Shipman, the nurse who killed many patients) the rest are somehow superhuman.

I have twice been sexually assaulted by doctors treating me. A few years apart and in different hospital/clinics. It's hard to tell people because it's shocking that it happened once, but unbelievable that it happened twice. Sometime I wonder myself if I even misunderstood something but then I recall two dr friends I told who were crystal clear that it was assault.

The cruelest thing about this abuse is that it makes it almost impossible to go to a new dr or hospital. There are times when I should have gone to A&E much earlier (as I was told when I finally went) but preferred to stay in debilitating pain than put myself at the hands of a doctor.

Meant to add his job is exactly the same throughout I doubt he ever disclosed the restraining order to his boss - he can be alone with adults, vulnerable, children. Etc and no one cares

I don’t think I was naive previously about the lengths some men will go to for access to victims - priests, doctors, teachers, etc. But two events in the last year have still completely shocked me. This case is one of them. The murder of Sarah Everard is the other.

I now view any lone male as a possible threat to women, regardless of his uniform or ID card.

OP's point is to be shocked at the lengths some men go.

Effectively she is saying NAMALT.

She then says no one should be above suspicion. That includes women.

I don’t think she is NAMALTing. There is no reference to women, she was just surprised by it being a paramedic and realises no one should be above suspicion.

I was appalled that it was a paramedic too, just one more thing for women to be wary of.

Abusers are often very intelligent people, they are very good at manipulating situations to be able to fulfill their needs, it follows that they would pick careers that provide easier access. Gross, but true.

My DD is a SC manager for people who have LD's and a MH diagnosis. They have had abusers. Some even wear two sets of clothes, so on camera they are wearing different clothes to what the women are describing. They then wear the clothes they did the abusing in on another shift when they work 2to1, to completely discredit the victim, so unfortunately many go uncharged. They will be moved from that service into an all male one, but then quickly leave. Nothing can be written on their reference to suggest wrongdoing.
I was reading a report on a young woman's suicide in prison and the female guards were found to be doing unnecessary strip and intimate searchers, as well as restraining. There were three suicides in a short space of time. This was on vulnerable women whose background included sexual abuse.

@daretodenim it may be too difficult to read given your experiences but there’s a really interesting chapter in Malcolm Gladwell’s book Talking to Strangers. In it the victims of well respected abusers couldn’t accept that they’d been abused because it was so shocking. They fell over themselves to find excuses and justify what was going on. I think it focussed on a gymnastics coach who was a serial abuser offering sexual assault in the guise of “physio”.

I am sorry this has happened to you and that it’s happened twice. It’s no wonder you have no trust in the medical profession.

I was reading a report on a young woman's suicide in prison and the female guards were found to be doing unnecessary strip and intimate searchers, as well as restraining. There were three suicides in a short space of time. This was on vulnerable women whose background included sexual abuse.

Is this the UK?

Even better, Greater Manchester police don't treat it as a criminal offence if someone omits to mention, or lies, that they've been cautioned and questionned about sexual offences on their enhanced disclosure form.
I made the point this made the form as much as....
..a chocolate fire guard.
They didn't come back to me.
A solicitor told me they're known for it and, had they known they'd have told me not to bother ringing them.
Victor Whitsey, bishop of Chester was known to have buggered one of his ordinands who went to him after he'd been raped by his vicar. Evidently, thought the vicar hadn't done it properly.
It was widely reported at the 2018 General Synod at York.
There was even a stupid prison visiter who spoke pleading for compassion for the imprisoned paedophiles.

Made me think of the not the 9 o'clock news sketch where they had a bishop, JSP as a social worker etc with them all saying 'lop of their goolies' as a solution.

Macsas, the charity that helps victims of church abuse is manned by volunteers who have all themselves been victims.

I did read about a serial killer story once, where the person wanted to train as a criminal profiler to gain access to a better selection of candidates,.for the more higher level of people that have similar training.

How far the person got, I'm not sure as I read a small but of information about it, a few years ago.

Something I heard that stuck with me was "If you can't understand why an abuser has done something, it's because you're not like them."

That line is about how that understanding can be the only closure we can get - the abuser themselves may not be able to articulate or be honest about their reasoning so chasing closure through asking why can just be harmful - but I also think it shows that it's not unreasonable to be shocked that someone does this sort of vile thing in the first place, even more to go to such lengths for it, when it's so far outside of how we operate.

That said, it is unreasonable to think any group of people are 'safe' or any place is safe. Wherever there are vulnerable people, that power imbalance attracts the worst who want to take advantage of that.

I don’t agree about the DBS check. These are a fairly recent phenomenon and before them not all paedophiles became teachers. They give a false sense of security, there will be many paedophiles who haven’t been convicted. Don’t rely on a piece of paper, they have their use, but people should trust their instinct and report anything they think is wrong.

Bishop Victor Whitsey review for anyone not familiar with this wretched history.

chester.anglican.org/news/publication-of-review-into-bishop-whitsey.php

YANBU. For reasons I won't go into on here, I'm vulnerable. I've had to call the police to advise on creepy man who had been stalking/harassing me.