To ask that we stop looking for excuses for horrific child abuse and murder?!

[Dinotruxagain]

Sparked by the murder of little Arthur and the threads I'm seeing trying to look for reasons that the abuse took place.

As a now adult survivor of pretty horrific child abuse , (physically ending in hospital visits) emotional and mental abuse, basically the works.
I find it so very upsetting that people are looking for the generational link, do you understand how that leaves us feeling when it comes to our own parenting?

I now have a child, DS4, but for many decades I was terrified that I would repeat the same pattern with my own child.
It took a lot of therapy to come to the realisation that I, and I alone, controlled my life and my behaviour.

We are not all destined to repeat the mistakes of our parents, yes, we've been damaged but it doesn't mean it's ' rare' to parent well in later life.

My own mother, (father wasn't around) was one of 7 siblings, all perfectly normal happy families.
She didn't have an abusive childhood, nothing different was done in her upbringing compared to her siblings.
She was the only one who turned out to be an abusive person, outward appearance of a wonderful human being, unless of course you were either my brother or I.
Yes, our abuse was reported to social services, we were not believed and returned back to her time and time again. Her job?... she was a social worker.

I'm not sure why I'm posting this, I guess that the recent threads have sparked it but I just wanted to say we're not all destined to repeat the same cycle.
We can, and are good parents despite our upbringing.
Please remember that when you are looking for links, some people are just horrible, horrible people.

Op I agree.
I haven't time to post properly but just wanted to express solidarity.
My family history has terrible events that were not then the cause of intergenerational dysfunction. I think the focus on this is due to modern systems seeking to explain what used to be classified as "evil" but that isn't part of the modern western world viewpoint any longer.
Here's a wholly inadequate but heartfelt
.

There are acres of research linking childhood abuse with becoming an abuser.

And what is that research based on? Primarily on self-report. By abusers who not unnaturally want to make it look like it wasn't their fault.

To which we can add the large percentage of children who are absued but don't become abusers themselves. Why were they immune to this supposed link, if not because of some differences in their personalities?

And no-one is born with a personality disorder.

No, they are born with the genetic profile that significantly increases the likelihood that they will develop a personality disorder as they mature.

And large studies have shown that sociopathy is hereditary to a considerable degree. In addition, google "callous and unemotional" for the evidence that sociopathic traits can be seen in relatively young children.

It troubles me too. I did not suffer the terrible abuse that some of you have posted about (I'm so sorry you went through that) but I was badly damaged by my parents emotional neglect, I think I'd call it. They didn't seem to think their children had any autonomy- we were considered possessions or extensions of them. Luckily for my sister, she was exactly what they wanted/expected. I was constantly told what a disappointment I was to them and how they suffered from that. How I felt never seemed to occur to them. As an adult I feel like I could fall off the face of the earth and they would neither notice nor care.

All this just made me so determined that my children would have a completely different experience. I do "parent" them but they can always tell us what they think and feel without judgement and they know we will always love them and be "on their team" despite any disagreement or (reasonable) discipline required.

I find it very hard to swallow that people just repeat the cycle without thinking. My own parents would say "that's what it was like when we were young and it didn't do us any harm". It's as if they totally forgot how they thought and felt as children.

The point I was making is that sometimes there is no reason for people being the way the are.
It cannot be explained.
It's understandable people are looking for reasons, I get it.

But often our childhoods are a factor in who we grow up to be. We can’t throw away decades of research because it upsets people.

No one thinks if you had abusive parents, you will grow up to be abusive.

But if you read, for example, the case of Robert Thompson and think his childhood wasn’t a factor in what he did to James Bulger then you would be misguided.

Agree OP. Personal responsibility is just not a thing anymore. No one can just be bad or nasty or a criminal. There has to be some mental health issue, background story. People fall over themselves to make excuses for others. Infantilising grown adults is ridiculous and not ‘progressive’.

Well it's a nature/nature thing isn't it?
Some people will be genetically predisposed to being a psycopath/ sociopath/ having a personality disorder. Sometimes it will be so strong the upbringing won't make it more or less likely. I'm trying to think of an example. Jeremy Bamber maybe?

Sometimes a bad nurturing experience will create an environment for the genetic predisposition to develop in a certain direction. Robert Thompson? Or a good one will result in a psychopath who isn't a murderer but, say, a successful surgeon or political leader.

And sometimes someone with little or no genetic predisposition will be so damaged by a childhood experience that a personality disorder develops.

So it's probably a very individual thing depending on the factors and circumstances. Very hard to ascertain given that psychology is such a nebulous science.

@EishetChayil

People are looking for reasons, not excuses.

It is only through looking for the reason why things happen that we can take steps to prevent them happening again.

If you don't look for the reasons why people do X then you can't prevent X happening. I think we'd all agree that prevention is better than cure.

@Lockheart

If you don't look for the reasons why people do X then you can't prevent X happening. I think we'd all agree that prevention is better than cure.

The prevention strategies are well known, its just that as a country, we don't care. Child murders have doubled over the last 5 years, just a few days ago, a 12yo was stabbed to death in Liverpool.

26 children have been murdered in London so far this year, yet we are still closing youth centres, closing down access to sports facilities and child MH services.

We all hand wring when hi profile cases such as this horrific killing happen and then go back to our safe worlds until the next time, the harsh reality is that we'd rather have pension tax relief than fund social services.

some don’t really think it through before making moronic statements such as being a murderer is like being disabled 🙄
Oh fgs
How would you describe a brain impairment that affects behaviour then, as setout in the article I linked? I'd describe a birth impairment as a disability. But fine, let's police language and call each other morons rather than actually consider that maybe sadistic psychopaths are born with a disorder

I agree. I don't think abuse should be used as an excuse. My life is a prime example. I was sexually and physically abused as a child and then by an ex. I later became addicted to ketamine. The addiction is entirely on me. I could have made a choice to say no. To go down the healthy path of talking, counselling etc. However I chose drugs. I knew it was wrong and I still did it. No excuse other than my own poor choices. I now make better choices and am and always have been, if I may say so myself, a wonderful mother to my children.

you're right. my DH was emotionally abused and is aware of how his parents behaviour impacted him and how he will not do that to DC. there is generational abuse in his family though.

I’m so sorry for what you went through, I think for me I just can’t understand how anyone could abuse a child. So they look for some sort of reason just as it’s unfathomable to me.

You’re right though, why try and philosophise disgrace.

I'm so sorry so many of you have been through such awful abuse but at the same time I'm incredibly happy that you have gone on to be good, decent parents.
You ( or your partners) have broken the cycle, that is to be admired.

I do believe it's a choice we make, (Thomspon was a child when he commit that horrendous
crime against Jamie, and to me that's a whole other kettle of fish!) But I do believe as adults we choose which way we go.

My brother chose a different path, violence and criminality is what he knows but at over 30 his blaming of his childhood no longer washes for me.
Shit childhoods of course impact how you see the world, the decisions you make etc but at the end of the day we are responsible for our own actions.

There are no reasons nor excuses to me that can justify , nor explain torturing and abusing a child.

Where we go from here I do not know, how do we stop things like this from happening again and again?
Or are we yet again going to be told "lessons will be learnt"?