To think that "wokeism" is for the privileged few?

[Mooscow]

Wokeism and identity politics seems rife at the moment in the UK. But Canada and the US seem even worse. There is this massive push to avoid the possibility of ever offending anyone, ever. For example, I work for a North American company and we've just been given a long list of words never to use. This includes "female", "blind", "deaf", "blacklist", "homeless", "rule of thumb" and it goes on and on and on. So you can't say things like "turn a blind eye" or "tone deaf" etc. any more in case it offends a blind or deaf person. Really?!

I've just read an article in the FT (sorry can't share) that says the US has only sent 111million out of its pledge to send 1 billion vaccines to poorer countries. The US has 2 and a half times the amount of vaccines it needs for itself and Canada has ordered 8 times what it needs.

I know that vaccines and wokeism has little in common but it just struck me how so much effort is put into this new purity culture whilst at the same time demonstrating utter selfishness and lack of compassion for anyone else.

It's also like the push to remove the word women from healthcare such as cervical screening in case a transman, as a "cervix haver" 🤮 is offended at being grouped with women, while 40% of women (especially those without English as a first language and those in lower socio-economic groups) don't even know what a cervix is. But screw them, let's let them get cervical cancer while we pat ourselves on the back and virtue signal at making sure we don't offend by telling the truth the tiny, tiny proportion of trans people.

I wonder if the whole work/identity politics stuff is based in the fact that privileged people can effortlessly virtue signal to feel better about themselves whilst remaining selfish, uncaring and apathetic towards people who are actually in need or vulnerable. AIBU?

"What have I said that is transphobic? Please do point it out as Mumsnet will delete it"

Ha ha ha ha ha

"No I haven't challenged my company about this as I have already experienced intolerance and misogyny when questioning other things and expect to be discriminated against and called a bigot and transphobe for raising sensible question"

Well if I worked there I'd certainly be asking why I couldn't use 'female' but could use 'male'. Just for my own curiosity. Which makes me suspect that there's some context they've stated that you've left out, which explains that already. If not, then it's a perfectly reasonable question you can easily phrase without any hint of bigotry. Give it a try?

I did the search attached, got lots of references to maternity, paternity, mothers, dads on the page. Which pamphlet should I look for that doesn't say 'women' or whatever?

Anyway, back to the term woke, I do think that it’s been taken over by virtue signallers and detracting away from the very real issues of structural racism and to expand further, inequalities in our structural system.

Language does evolve, but as I mentioned above it still needs to be meaningful to the population. So words which were commonplace when I was younger are no longer so and that is a good thing but a big list does make it ineffective as it may be difficult for some to digest so the organisation should work on cultural change but that’s much more difficult than sending out a nice tick list.

@334bu

*The notion that women are being "erased" by the use of inclusive language, or that "we're not allowed to call ourselves women" is really nonsense.*

Muriel you have spent a lot of time this week saying that it is nonsense that.women are no longer allowed to call themselves women, and yet, on another thread woman after woman gave you example after example of them being prevented from doing just that.
How many examples do you need, 20/ 100 ..?

I'll take some linked examples - links to actual sources, not blogs about or telegraph columns. Actual sources please.

Have you asked them why female is out and not male? Or are you just going to mutter and froth and stir up some more transphobia without ever sense-checking?

So a woman describing her sex is now transphobic? If this is the case how do we manage to fight sex discrimination cases?

Daily Mail!

Hello @Mooscow

Instead of female it says to say women (which doesn't make sense as female is an adjective) and then later down the list instead of women it says to say assigned female at birth. (No mention of male/men).

They are bonkers! This is totally circular and insoluble.

Instead of "female" use "woman". OK

But I can't use "woman". I must use "assigned female at birth".

But I can't use "female". I must use "woman" etc ...

It's worse than first thought

Yeah, I didn't think you'd be able to point out any transphobia. It's like there's a playbook with these things.

Anyway, I'm going to bed now. I suggest you do your own research rather than expect other people to do it for you and then refuse to read any of it anyway. Goodnight.

@Selkiesarereal

So rather than do some research yourself to give you further insight you just shut down the debate and deny it actually exists.

Digging yourself into a gender "critical" blogoverse where inclusiveness is 'erasure' and sending round the same tropes with as much actual fact as 'they said Happy Holidays we're not allowed to say Christmas' is neither research not insight.

I'll take some linked examples - links to actual sources, not blogs about or telegraph columns. Actual sources please

No you won't because you don't want to read anything which goes against your beliefs. I could give you link after link and you would just dismiss them all.

@MurielSpriggs

Hello *@Mooscow*

Instead of female it says to say women (which doesn't make sense as female is an adjective) and then later down the list instead of women it says to say assigned female at birth. (No mention of male/men).

They are bonkers! This is totally circular and insoluble.

Instead of "female" use "woman". OK

But I can't use "woman". I must use "assigned female at birth".

But I can't use "female". I must use "woman" etc ...

It's worse than first thought

Yes it's bonkers. My manager previously changed some language to define the menopause as "when a person doesn't have a period for 12 months." When I pointed out that definition would include all men, boys and prepubescent girls she told me that it was very clear and made total sense and said in what I felt was quite a threatening way that "we must be trans-inclusive".

"So a woman describing her sex is now transphobic? If this is the case how do we manage to fight sex discrimination cases"

Wow, you grabbed the wrong end of that stick with both hands didn't you? This is why I want to see the actual sources of your claims, not the misinterpreted write-ups.

Posters gave you links, you refused to read them and I can’t be arsed to do your work for you, it’s far too late to get this involved.

@Selkiesarereal

Posters gave you links, you refused to read them and I can’t be arsed to do your work for you, it’s far too late to get this involved.

Yes, it's late, I'm for bed for now. But I'll happily read your breastfeeding leaflets where there's no mention of mothers, or your menopause leaflets that don't mention women - show me the links. Tomorrow.

I'm not interested in blog posts or columns, because they're not fact checked and don't have to be true. News items are fine - newspapers have fact checkers and lawyers, so it's less likely to be wholly or partly made up.

But don't give me the 'i gave you links' when you didn't. You pointed me at blogs with all the weight and ability to fact check of the OP's first post.

@DameFanny

"So a woman describing her sex is now transphobic? If this is the case how do we manage to fight sex discrimination cases"

Wow, you grabbed the wrong end of that stick with both hands didn't you? This is why I want to see the actual sources of your claims, not the misinterpreted write-ups.

I'm quite curious to see these links. I'm sympathetic to gender-critical posters, I'm not a fan of the TWAW concept. But "women are being erased" seems to me to be a frankly ludicrous claim, which undermines the credibility of GC feminists.

Wow, you grabbed the wrong end of that stick with both hands didn't you? This is why I want to see the actual sources of your claims, not the misinterpreted write-ups.

No you don't !

I'm quite curious to see these links. I'm sympathetic to gender-critical posters, I'm not a fan of the TWAW concept. But "women are being erased" seems to me to be a frankly ludicrous claim, which undermines the credibility of GC feminists.

I suggest you reread the thread you were posting on a day or so ago. There were plenty of people giving you example after example.

Are you confusing me with someone else? I've no idea what thread you mean @334Bu

Actually one last thing before i go to bed @Mooscow

You're not in healthcare or social services where material may be written to be clear who the target audience is, yet you're writing material about menopause? And you say that your manager "said in what I felt was quite a threatening way that "we must be trans-inclusive"" This is where you're dig whistling transphobia. Because if you did lose your job or got demoted, you wouldn't tell people it was because you couldn't follow an in house style guide, you'd tell them it was those awful trans people that got you sacked for calling yourself a woman.

Be honest now, that's what this is.

@DameFanny

Are you confusing me with someone else? I've no idea what thread you mean *@334Bu*

I think @334bu means me.

I've just dug that thread up, and I do not actually see any links. After I last posted there are a lot of deleted posts which, if the links were there then they've now vanished.

I have a feeling that policy would be deemed as discriminatory if you took them to a tribunal because it is enforcing speech in relation to a belief which you don’t hold. You can’t be forced in work to say the earth is flat and you can’t be forced in work to use the term assigned female at birth because it’s as scientifically sound as flat earth theory. Just because some people are born without a leg, we don’t say humans aren’t bipedal. The existence of people with disorders of sexual development (intersex and 0.001% of births)) doesn’t mean that sex isn’t binary.

Ah @MurielSpriggs, good to know I'm not losing my marbles

@DameFanny

Actually one last thing before i go to bed *@Mooscow*

You're not in healthcare or social services where material may be written to be clear who the target audience is, yet you're writing material about menopause? And you say that your manager "said in what I felt was quite a threatening way that "we must be trans-inclusive"" This is where you're dig whistling transphobia. Because if you did lose your job or got demoted, you wouldn't tell people it was because you couldn't follow an in house style guide, you'd tell them it was those awful trans people that got you sacked for calling yourself a woman.

Be honest now, that's what this is.

You don't have to be working in healthcare for the menopause to be relevant to your employer. A good employer (whatever the field) ought to have a policy on supporting menopausal women, just as they should have policies on accessibility, on bullying, and on manual handling.

Isn't it a good thing that "privileged" people are in a position where they are able to consider these things ? It goes back to the hierarchy of needs I suppose and obviously people who are starving or can't meet their basic needs are going to be less able to think about something like workplace discrimination. That doesn't mean they should never be thought about.

I think the word "woke" is currently being tossed around like "snowflake" used to be. But to me basically any definition I have seen of the word "woke" just seems to mean anti-racism and anti-discrimination. I don't undertand the issue with that.

Of course there are problems in wider society and no one is 100% good and pure. The vaccine issue you speak about is one that really only people in the highest authority have any say over, so you can't really compare it to your Average Joe who is trying not to be racist, bigoted, offensive and discriminatory and who will be slapped with the label "Woke" by those who want to keep him in his place and keep the status quo.