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Original poster

To think removing Analogue phone systems by 2025 is too soon?

137 replies

bigbluebus · 01/12/2021 12:19

I know many on MN don't have phones plugged into landlines but many of us who are in slightly older demographic probably still do as our older relatives like to ring on landlines and also mobile reception is not always brilliant in more rural areas.

We were one of the unfortunate households who suffered recent power loss for 3 days and nights in freezing temperatures so keeping in touch with elderly neighbours and relatives was quite important. Of course our cordless phones don't work without power so, as advised, we have an old phone which plugs into a phone socket in such circumstances.

BT plan to get rid of this option by 2025 and landline services will only be available via broadband. As far as I'm aware the plan is to bring in a cheap basic broadband option for those who have no broadband service. But broadband needs electricity. So all those elderly and vulnerable who only have an 'electrically powered' phone line will be totally without any means of communication if the power goes off and they don't have a mobile phone.

The last 3 days here have taught us that the powers that be don't give a shiny sh*te about those on their supposed welfare list in times of crisis. My elderly neighbour (all electric) was not offered any assistance by the energy company and if she had lost her phone line too it would have made life even more difficult.

Whilst we are rural enough to have so many overhead power lines that the storm caused major disruption we are far from being out in the sticks. I feel that once again those not in towns/cities are not being considered in the name of 'progress'.

I appreciate there will come a time when the 'new' older generation will all have mobile phones but don't think that time is here yet nor will it be by 2025.

And don't get me started on the all electric agenda being pushed in the name of global warming - without our open fire we would have been frozen at the weekend!

OP posts:
TheHateIsNotGood · 01/12/2021 18:30

I wish your dd well, maybe I can encourage you also to design a mobile phone for UK manufacture, they've found Lithium in Cornwall.

Rather than tear down an old but functioning telephone system, I'd rather money was spent dividing our water systems into fresh, water and run-off.

But that would require quite a bit of econo-political upheaval.

TheHateIsNotGood · 01/12/2021 18:31

correction to above should read fresh, sewerage and run-off water.

Trivium4all · 01/12/2021 18:41

To those saying to use a mobile for back-up (assuming your home gets mobile signal, which many rural areas don't): this particular storm knocked out a bunch of mobile masts as well, so quite a few of my friends had neither a LL, nor internet, nor mobile. I'm all in favour of modernising and upgrading the infrastructure, as I think is the OP: we'd just like the new infrastructure to be fully reliable in case of emergencies, before the old one is turned off. Many of rural dwellers have little faith in BT's ability to deliver this reliability of infrastructure, which isn't surprising, given how left-behind many areas are generally, in terms of technology (open fires and back boilers, anyone?)!

Trivium4all · 01/12/2021 18:42

neither ELECTRICITY nor internet nor mobile, that should have said!

Octavia174 · 01/12/2021 18:45

@TheHateIsNotGood

Thank you mogrus for confirming why LLs are very useful, as you quite rightly state "they work in a power cut".

Thank you also for your knowledge-based advice as you seem to know what you're talking about.

You may be in luck, open reach do already use hybrid cables, fibre and copper in one cable, so no reason why a media converter couldn't be used in the exchange/cab to give an analog line to those that either don't have internet or without mb reception or indeed a mb.
RandomLondoner · 01/12/2021 18:52

You would need an inverter UPS to power a router with wifi and an NTE

I don't think you would need an inverter. My broadband and router both have external power supplies which I think supply low-voltage DC to the devices. The broadband has built-in battery backup of penlight batteries, so clearly it doesn't need mains voltage to work.

and if you wanted something that might last 72 hours, your looking at a lot of money

I admit that when I googled power supplies after posting, none of the ones I saw were designed to last days. But remember that 99% of people don't need anything, because they can cope with the power cuts they get without a landline. (The longest cut I've had in 35 years in London is about 4 hours.) The aggregate cost of a solution for a small number of people who need it should be affordable.

How many people (a) currently have a landline and (b) live where there is no mobile signal and (c) repeatedly experience power cuts lasting days rather than hours and (d) would have their life endangered if they couldn't communicate from home for a few days?

StCharlotte · 01/12/2021 18:59

I heard an "infomercial" about it the other day. I'm fairly tech-savvy (or I thought I was) but it was utterly incomprehensible and might as well have been in a foreign language.

I don't fancy 90 yo MIL's chances...

VeganCheesePlease · 01/12/2021 19:00

Its not BT getting rid, it's Openreach so all companies will be the same by then.

RandomLondoner · 01/12/2021 19:05

After doing a back-of-the-envelope calculation, I think a car battery might be able to power broadband and router for several days. Car batteries are relatively cheap.

mogsrus · 01/12/2021 19:32

Car batteries are very cheap but reducing 12 volts to 2 or 3 requires a voltage dropper then you need the actual plug for the router. In theory it works

Octavia174 · 02/12/2021 09:04

@RandomLondoner

You would need an inverter UPS to power a router with wifi and an NTE

I don't think you would need an inverter. My broadband and router both have external power supplies which I think supply low-voltage DC to the devices. The broadband has built-in battery backup of penlight batteries, so clearly it doesn't need mains voltage to work.

and if you wanted something that might last 72 hours, your looking at a lot of money

I admit that when I googled power supplies after posting, none of the ones I saw were designed to last days. But remember that 99% of people don't need anything, because they can cope with the power cuts they get without a landline. (The longest cut I've had in 35 years in London is about 4 hours.) The aggregate cost of a solution for a small number of people who need it should be affordable.

How many people (a) currently have a landline and (b) live where there is no mobile signal and (c) repeatedly experience power cuts lasting days rather than hours and (d) would have their life endangered if they couldn't communicate from home for a few days?

The newer BT nte's dont have battery backup (mine doesn't) Still need to power the router...

For ease of use, having equipment plugged into an inverter means everything just keeps working in the event of a power cut.

Plenty of rural areas have non existent mb signal and plenty of people use emergency alarms for medical reasons that go through a landline & for many elderly with things like Parkinsons, they will need a single press button/sudden fall activation solution that is line powered.

I read the BT pdf on this switch over and they completely failed to mention medical alarms.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 02/12/2021 09:08

I have a landline

A number of my mobiles haven’t worked at important times and I therefore prefer the landline for important stuff like hospital appointments and waiting in massive GP appointment queues

Dh really wants to get rid off it but I’m not letting him…seems that he’ll get his way in the end 😀

ChooChooSan · 02/12/2021 09:23

My is on one of those press button systems in her sheltered accommodation.
Where they got rid of the on site wardens years ago..

MatildaIThink · 02/12/2021 09:32

@GetTheFlockOutOfHere
That's disgusting! sad
I bet if the power had gone off in LONDON, it wouldn't have stayed off for 4 bloody days and nights. hmm
No offence to anyone who lives there btw, but it's true. sad
Nothing to do with it being in the north or in London and everything to do with the nature of the power supply to remote towns, villages or even remote individual properties.

When lots of very long power lines get taken down by thousand of trees falling the trees need to be cleared as well as power lines being re-built. They have engineers from all over the country working 12+ hour days to get things sorted, there is not any way to go faster.

dropitlikeitsloth · 02/12/2021 09:33

@Quickchangeartiste

Having just spent 4 nights without power in NE Scotland, we would have had no information had we not had a landline with an analogue phone - kept for just such emergencies. SSEN and our local council posted any and all updates on the internet, including where to get help and progress. You couldn’t make up the scale of ineptitude and lack of comprehension So while most of the time I don’t need a landline, I do need an alternative available, even publicly, via which I could contact emergency service, access information etc.
I live my rotary phone though, I can chat to Mum for an hour or so without my ear getting hot and worrying I’m cooking my brain cells 🤣. Also, they’re pretty and good for emergencies.
MatildaIThink · 02/12/2021 09:36

From the attitude displayed on here it seems like we all need to get satellite phones for the occasional couple of days twice a decade that we might lose phone connections.

maddening · 02/12/2021 09:39

Until they can assure full coverage for the whole UK, not just main cities etc, I think it is dangerous, eg if you have no signal and have a fire I'm your home so your router cuts out you will have no way of calling the emergency services.

MatildaIThink · 02/12/2021 09:40

@maddening

Until they can assure full coverage for the whole UK, not just main cities etc, I think it is dangerous, eg if you have no signal and have a fire I'm your home so your router cuts out you will have no way of calling the emergency services.
If you have a fire and the phone cuts out because the master switch is melting your phone cuts out as well.
Octavia174 · 02/12/2021 09:42

[quote MatildaIThink]@GetTheFlockOutOfHere
That's disgusting! sad
I bet if the power had gone off in LONDON, it wouldn't have stayed off for 4 bloody days and nights. hmm
No offence to anyone who lives there btw, but it's true. sad
Nothing to do with it being in the north or in London and everything to do with the nature of the power supply to remote towns, villages or even remote individual properties.

When lots of very long power lines get taken down by thousand of trees falling the trees need to be cleared as well as power lines being re-built. They have engineers from all over the country working 12+ hour days to get things sorted, there is not any way to go faster.[/quote]
Err prevention is better than cure, why do they allow shallow rooted trees to be grown right next to power lines?

They used to cut back but to save money thats now limited to 2m clearance.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 02/12/2021 09:57

@TheHateIsNotGood

Thank you mogrus for confirming why LLs are very useful, as you quite rightly state "they work in a power cut".

Thank you also for your knowledge-based advice as you seem to know what you're talking about.

Pretty sure fibre works in a power cut too - the only difference is you can't send 50v down a fibre "cable". It's really not beyond the wit of man (or the understanding of older folk before we write them all off) to provide a small backup supply at the customer end to ensure comms still work. It isn't necessary to really on 100 year old tech for that - we have moved on.
SapatSea · 02/12/2021 10:01

BT/Openreach have switched our Landline over from analogue to digital - plugged into the router. If the interent goes out so does the landline. It sucks. We had our router installed in a slightly awkward place and now our Landline phone has to be plugged in there too, so we have basically stopped using it.

SapatSea · 02/12/2021 10:03

The landline phone was more consistent in terms of volume and reliability (no cut outs or cracking up) compared to our mobile reception. Much easier when you start to get harder of hearing.

pigsDOfly · 02/12/2021 13:06

@SapatSea

The landline phone was more consistent in terms of volume and reliability (no cut outs or cracking up) compared to our mobile reception. Much easier when you start to get harder of hearing.
Agree.

My landline is far better in terms of reception and sound and it has never cut out during a call as my mobile has a tendency to do because the signal isn't great.

FindingFlorestan · 03/12/2021 22:24

See a woman in the BBC news from Aberdeenshire saying after the week long blackout there she will be looking to install a wood burner, gas supply and a back up generator.

PrtScn · 05/12/2021 10:54

I never use my landline but I keep it for emergencies. It’s a hardwired one, not a cordless one so it can be used when the electricity goes. Doesn’t happen as much anymore, but old habits die hard. Also I changed mobile networks because once the mast went down and it took them nearly 3 weeks to fix it, and the mast going down was quite regular but usually only a few days at a time. Thank god for my landline then!