Warning on Ancestry (and other) DNA tests?

[MLMshouldbeillegal]

Ancestry, My Heritage and the other DNA testing companies are all pushing their tests as the ideal Christmas gift, and they are cheaper than ever. Ancestry had a black Friday offer for £50, My Heritage even cheaper at £39.

AIBU to think these tests should come with a wee health warning? That although it's marketed as a "find out your ethnicity" tool, in fact it might reveal some long-hidden family secrets?

I have tested with Ancestry and uploaded my data to other sites too. No surprises on my tree, matches with distant cousins who all fit into the picture as I know it. But I also go genealogical client work and I'm currently working with a man in his 70s who was given one of the tests for father's day back in June and is trying to process the fact that he is not matching with other descendants of his grandfather. Or at least the man he thought was his grandfather. So in later life, he's trying to come to terms with his much loved grandfather, who his father absolutely adored, is probably not his biological relative. It's a lot to deal with.

The testing companies really push the "find out if you're part Viking, part Native American" in their marketing but that aspect isn't really very accurate - My Heritage says I'm >2% Iraq/Iran/Turkey and I'm definitely not. Ancestry is more accurate given what I know about my tree.

Taking one of these tests could open up a whole can of worms in terms of relationships in the family, in this generation or further back with people who are long dead, and who you can't get answers from. For some people it can be a lot to process and I dont think the implications are properly laid out.

OP thanks.

[quote AdmiralCain]@PerkingFaintly Fuck me... What the actual... 1 petabyte is 1000Terabytes, They have 6000 Terabytes - 6 million gigabytes of peoples information
That is shocking. So glad I'm a Gen X with an old phone, think of how much people have on their phone, insta, tik tok, bank details, dating apps, retina scans and finger prints to unlock your phone. The data asset companies must be having a field day with ALL that info.[/quote]
Yes and people don't seem to care.

I should have bought shares, I guess.

[quote Lockdownbear]@ToffeeNotCoffee
When we were getting married our minister made a comment about church weddings being a fairly recent thing, pre the 50s few people could afford a church wedding, vestry, home, the village hall were common alternatives.
In Scotland "the church" is seen as a body of people and can gather anywhere rather than "the church" being a building.[/quote]
Agree with this. Scotland has quite different marriage rules to the rest of the UK. Best aspect of this for genealogy is that mother's names and maiden names are always recorded on a Scottish marriage certificate.

Irregular marriage was a thing in Scotland until (i think) the 1950s, banned in England 200 years earlier. Even now, people in Scotland can be married in a private home by a minister/priest, in a field, halfway up a mountain whereas in England/Wales it has to be in a premises licensed to conduct marriages.

I have come across several unusual marriages in my research - most recent was a couple married in a private house by the minister of the Church of Scotland after hte banns had been read in church as normal. Thought it was a bit odd until I found the birth certificate for their eldest child, who was born a week after the wedding.

And also I find it really hard to get worked up about "data". it's all a bit tinfoil hat.

[quote AdmiralCain]@MintMatchmaker The DVLA sell our information, Google sell it, Facebook sell it. We teach our kids to be safe online, this is a continuation of that, I choose to be safe online and not give my genetic information to a company run for profit.
Ok so maybe I'm clutching at straws saying insurance companies greedily want our information (which they do). Some other company will want it.[/quote]
The DVLA have actual information about us. You can register a dna kit with a false name and throwaway email address. It’s absolutely fine to be unwilling to put your DNA out there, but it is isn’t fine to tell people their insurance policies will be invalidated if they choose to do so when that is clearly something you made up.

@MLMshouldbeillegal

And also I find it really hard to get worked up about "data". it's all a bit tinfoil hat.

what a dope

It’s absolutely fine to be unwilling to put your DNA out there, but it is isn’t fine to tell people their insurance policies will be invalidated if they choose to do so when that is clearly something you made up.

Quite.

@MLMshouldbeillegal

And also I find it really hard to get worked up about "data". it's all a bit tinfoil hat.

I think we know that from the fact you used this service!

@DaisyNGO This is the only mumsnet thread EVER where I haven't been ripped to shreds for saying huge multinational conglomerates companies aren't the nice people they appear to be.
The psychology behind advertising Ancestry and numerous companies - companies just create the products now and with psychology and nudging we create the brand image in our head and spread that brand image, The product maker doesn't even have to advertise the product now, we do all the hard work for them.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/16/dna-hugely-valuable-health-tech-privacy

I would like to do one, purely because my dad doesn’t know hardly anything about his family and is naturally very olive skinned we both quite often get asked our background and we don’t know so in that circumstance it would be helpful.

[quote AdmiralCain]@DaisyNGO This is the only mumsnet thread EVER where I haven't been ripped to shreds for saying huge multinational conglomerates companies aren't the nice people they appear to be.
The psychology behind advertising Ancestry and numerous companies - companies just create the products now and with psychology and nudging we create the brand image in our head and spread that brand image, The product maker doesn't even have to advertise the product now, we do all the hard work for them.[/quote]
Was it you posted the article saying we are Silicon Valley's wet dream?
Thanks, that was excellent.

Sadly no one cares. They want their pizza delivered on time and if their iris needs to be scanned, so be it.

@VioletRose91

I would like to do one, purely because my dad doesn’t know hardly anything about his family and is naturally very olive skinned we both quite often get asked our background and we don’t know so in that circumstance it would be helpful.

If your dad is still alive, it's probably better to get him to test if he's up for it.

drspouse

In the nicest possible way, I think you're both over stepping and being very naïve in thinking about using Ancestry to trace biological relatives for your (future) adopted teenage child.

That will be a decision for them to make when they're ready to find out, which may be never. That's their right.

Also, were they to do this, be aware that the home circumstances which led to children being placed for adoption often include wider family issues that a responsible adoptive parent should think twice about inviting into their child's life. Being adopted is quite difficult enough. You can't undo this once your child's DNA is on that register. She won't necessarily be seen as family either, removing a potential layer of protection from 'brothers' etc who may just see a pretty girl.

I can't believe you would delay doing this simply to protect your adoptive child's biological siblings from knowing their father was unfaithful. That is the least of what you should be considering.

We had a bit of a brick wall in my tree with my nans father being adopted. So many people who thought I should donate test my nan with dementia, just awful. She can't consent!!!

2% of something will go back centuries - I expect it’s accurate. I have 8% Indian DNA, which I know is correct as I have a long established Romany heritage.

@Chakraleaf

We had a bit of a brick wall in my tree with my nans father being adopted. So many people who thought I should donate test my nan with dementia, just awful. She can't consent!!!

Yes informed consent is essential. My dad has dementia too, although at early stages. I have ordered a Y DNA kit for him to explore the deep ancestry along the male line. I don't have a brother and neither does he, so we're doing it soon when he can still understand what it's all about.

Ancestry will allow adults to order DNA kits for their children under the age on 18 which I think is a bit dubious too, children can't give informed consent on the matter. I'd also agree that it's unwise to go ahead and order kits for adopted children as soon as they become adults and would always strongly advise people in this situation to speak to adoption charities or specialist counsellors first.

I always feel like you might have this sort of experience:

I saw something on Youtube the other day where a married couple did it and discovered they were (not terribly distantly!) related! Apparently it's not that uncommon!

At the risk of going off at a tangent, do people understand that one of the motives behind privatising parts of the NHS is to sell our personal healthcare data?

US companies have been baying for it, because the UK has such comprehensive patient data held in compatible formats rather than the fragmentation of other countries with fragmented health services.

This was explicitly stated at the time, and well covered during the care.data debacle. I think the body involved which had been selling data, the HSCIC, has now changed its name and been brought under NHS Digital.

This was a few years ago. I haven't kept up with what has happened since. Our UK healthcare data is definitely still shared "with carefully selected partners" (sometimes for valid reasons which many of us would happily agree to, were we asked) and was being mentioned as important to any US trade deal the UK struck after Brexit.

I've done a fair amount of family history research but haven't done one of these tests so far.

It is really interesting reading all of the stories in the thread. What surprises me the most is that the question of inheritance hasn't been mentioned so far. What would happen if, after the death of both parents, you discover that one of your siblings is not biologically related to your father after all, or a stranger turns out to be a half-sibling? What would you do about the will, or especially if they died intestate? What if the estate had already paid out?

@MissAmbrosia

I had one for Xmas last year. I have spent nearly 20 years on my family tree and have a huge worry of that if one person is not correct, then huge swathes of it could be wrong, so it's put me off doing it a bit. I should sent mine off.

Lol happened to me! My dad took a test to help my research. The first clue was a massive % of dna in common with Mayo residents (no connection in the tree at that point). Then around 60 dna marches with no paper connection to the tree, including a 2nd cousin. I had to dump all my previous paternal g grandfather connections, it turns out my ggrandfather was one of 3 brothers living nearby to my grandmother. I'll not find out which one now but it was a bit of a surprise!

Oh, and the posters squabbling above about insurance and healthcare data?

It was to the insurance industry that the HSCIC gave UK patient data.

Care.data is in chaos. It breaks my heart
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/28/care-data-is-in-chaos

On Monday, the Health and Social Care Information Centre admitted giving the insurance industry the coded hospital records of millions of patients, pseudonymised, but re-identifiable by anyone with malicious intent, as I explained last week. These were crunched by actuaries into tables showing the likelihood of death depending on various features such as age or disease, to help inform insurance premiums.

We can reasonably disagree on whether you find this use of your medical records acceptable, but the process must be competent and transparent. The HSCIC has now told the BBC that this release of your medical records broke the rules, and that there may have been other similarly erroneous releases

@MintMatchmaker More than enough people on this thread have backed me up on how dangerous these data companies are, in America, insurance companies have teams of investigators to void peoples insurance. Insurance companies don't want to pay out every policy. These investigators will go through every scrap of paper and social media site they can to find a reason to void your insurance.

Actually I’ve done mine with 23&me with the hope I’ll connect with birth siblings. I was adopted out of my birth family as was a brother. I’d love to connect with my blood brother ❤️

If 100 years ago common law marriages were common.
What's to say 'adoptions' didn't happen in a similar manner, child needs a home through bereavement or whatever, and either they go to an Auntie or a childless couple?

That would throw a lot of people's search out.