Warning on Ancestry (and other) DNA tests?

[MLMshouldbeillegal]

Ancestry, My Heritage and the other DNA testing companies are all pushing their tests as the ideal Christmas gift, and they are cheaper than ever. Ancestry had a black Friday offer for £50, My Heritage even cheaper at £39.

AIBU to think these tests should come with a wee health warning? That although it's marketed as a "find out your ethnicity" tool, in fact it might reveal some long-hidden family secrets?

I have tested with Ancestry and uploaded my data to other sites too. No surprises on my tree, matches with distant cousins who all fit into the picture as I know it. But I also go genealogical client work and I'm currently working with a man in his 70s who was given one of the tests for father's day back in June and is trying to process the fact that he is not matching with other descendants of his grandfather. Or at least the man he thought was his grandfather. So in later life, he's trying to come to terms with his much loved grandfather, who his father absolutely adored, is probably not his biological relative. It's a lot to deal with.

The testing companies really push the "find out if you're part Viking, part Native American" in their marketing but that aspect isn't really very accurate - My Heritage says I'm >2% Iraq/Iran/Turkey and I'm definitely not. Ancestry is more accurate given what I know about my tree.

Taking one of these tests could open up a whole can of worms in terms of relationships in the family, in this generation or further back with people who are long dead, and who you can't get answers from. For some people it can be a lot to process and I dont think the implications are properly laid out.

It's not even a case of what they might do with the data in the future. This is what they're doing with the data right now:

www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/legal/privacystatement
Genetic Information
[...]
We also process your DNA Data to provide you information about your degree of relatedness to other users in our DNA database and any genetic markers associated with certain biological, physiological, or behavioral traits, such as hair thickness and eye color or traits associated with wellness.

Behavioural traits?

We know from the Cambridge Analytica scandal that CA and Facebook were processing data to produce behavioural profiles. They were using it to tell political parties and lobbies how to "nudge" individuals' behaviour by targeting them each of them with different ads.

Combine the Facebook data with Ancestry DNA behavioural data, add in the fact this affects people merely related to the person who takes the DNA test, and we're well into dystopia already. We just haven't seen it yet.

The icing on the cake is that the person being tested often hands the identities of other people sharing their DNA on a plate to Facebook & Ancestry. Upload your family tree to Ancestry? Add friends and family on FB? It's all data to them.

BTW it's not just Facebook and Ancestry. They're the tip of the iceberg of a huge data processing industry in which our personal data has been described as "the new oil" for its value to profit-making companies and political bodies.

Red flag: look out for organisations trying to sooth you by saying they won't pass on your data... but will pass on the products of processing your data. Yeah, no.

so if the older gent tested his DNA and some of his family have test DNA come back as not related to him...

but the grandfather (if the gent is 70) will be long deceased - how have you go his DNA to confirm he is not a relative?

How have you concluded that the other relatives are related to the grandfather and the gent of 70 is not?

@PerkingFaintly

It's not even a case of what they might do with the data in the future. This is what they're doing with the data right now:

www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/legal/privacystatement
Genetic Information
[...]
We also process your DNA Data to provide you information about your degree of relatedness to other users in our DNA database and any genetic markers associated with certain biological, physiological, or behavioral traits, such as hair thickness and eye color or traits associated with wellness.

Behavioural traits?

We know from the Cambridge Analytica scandal that CA and Facebook were processing data to produce behavioural profiles. They were using it to tell political parties and lobbies how to "nudge" individuals' behaviour by targeting them each of them with different ads.

Combine the Facebook data with Ancestry DNA behavioural data, add in the fact this affects people merely related to the person who takes the DNA test, and we're well into dystopia already. We just haven't seen it yet.

The icing on the cake is that the person being tested often hands the identities of other people sharing their DNA on a plate to Facebook & Ancestry. Upload your family tree to Ancestry? Add friends and family on FB? It's all data to them.

That’s the only reason I haven’t had one. I actually really want to do one because I’m curious but I resent what they will do with the data.

I've not delved into it that deeply though, @ivykaty44. The older man has tested through something like Ancestry. He has presumably found matches with people he knows to be cousins on his maternal side. On his paternal side, there are people who he knows to be cousins of his father and who have tested, but who don't share DNA with him at all.

So there's something weird going on, and the most likely explanation he believes is that his grandfather wasn't his father's biological father.

@Justilou1

A friend of mine is a genetic counsellor. She warns everyone she knows against doing these tests because the medical information is stored and sold on to insurance companies to affect future generations. It’s very “Gattaca” or “The Island”, but that’s where the real money is.

I guess you could give the company false details? Slightly different name, burner email account, etc? Try and make it non traceable to you?

So there's something weird going on, and the most likely explanation he believes is that his grandfather wasn't his father's biological father.

It could be that his cousins aren't related to his grandfather and he and his father are related.

It's a very big assumption without factual evidence, which is a silly thing to do.

Unfortunately many people researching family history do jump to conclusions that are wildly wrong, without gaining facts and looking at all the information. Ive found that to be the case on more than one occasion

I am intrigued about these tests. Particularly the health aspect as I do not know my Father’s information.

I would like to see the extent of my family tree that side but I wouldn’t want them to identify me. Presumably you can’t hide your own information but see others?

We know from the Cambridge Analytica scandal that CA and Facebook were processing data to produce behavioural profiles. They were using it to tell political parties and lobbies how to "nudge" individuals' behaviour by targeting them each of them with different ads

My Dd found my Facebook profile. I never post anything. But she found it hilarious that I had on there a lot of random groups that are at odds with each other just to f**k with their profile of me.😃

Like I said, @ivykaty44, this is still at very preliminary stages. I am not making assumptions or "being silly". Just explaining to a previous poster that it's perfectly possible to work out what is going on with parentage even though the people involved are dead. And the client has yet to share all his information with me - we have an initial meeting set up for next week.

[quote Lockdownbear]@RedToothBrush

Just for your info Scotland had two pieces of case law related to Common Law wife. Around 1909 a lady moved in with her partner, took his name, and they presented themselves as Husband and wife. He died months later, the court ruled she was Common law wife.
The second case was in the 60s they'd lived together for years but didn't have a pretence of marriage the court rules they were co-habitees.

So I don't think it was that unusual for a couple in 1910 not to have the formal paperwork for marriage.[/quote]
@lockdownbear in the case in DH's family, the great grandfather and mother never divorced so legally, neither could have been regarded as that with their new partners as they were still married.

I know its not that unusual for a couple not to formally marry, but the issue in this case is that they were married to other people and the local community for the great grandmother were aware of this (she ended up being destitute with another baby and was supported by her new partners family (who were her husband's aunt and uncle) whereas her husband moved away and somewhat escaped this notority and had a 'respectable' middle class life and was able to pretend he was married.

Its a sad story as the man the great grandmother ended up with was, by all accounts, not a catch and seems to have frequently walked out and got into trouble with the law (including being charged with being caught in a compromising situation with a man though he was found not guilty of this). I don't really know what happened to the eldest two boys, as they were in the workhouse in 1911 and I've had a long wait on the 1921 census to find out what happened next to them.

Going back to what this data can be used for and by whom, I also would stress that once you've found this information out, a record exists.

This information is incredibly valuable to a wide range of groups - from insurance companies to hostile foreign powers.

So the scope for data to be stolen / hacked etc etc is very much there. And has implications for people you are related to, who haven't done a test too.

I am extremely wary.

@LolaButt

I am intrigued about these tests. Particularly the health aspect as I do not know my Father’s information.

I would like to see the extent of my family tree that side but I wouldn’t want them to identify me. Presumably you can’t hide your own information but see others?

You won't get any health information from Ancestry or My Heritage. They are purely for matching you with genetic cousins.

You'd have to do a 23 and Me test for the genetic health information and a separate Ancestry or My Heritage test for the genealogy and cousin matching.

@mugoftea456

My father walked out when I was a child, no huge trauma to me. However i do know he went on to have more children, none of which know i exist. I would never to one of these test, it would be awful for the other children to find out about their fathers previous life in this way.

Similar story with me, but I'm the one who doesn't want to find any more siblings or other family. I want nothing to do with my father ever. Also rules around sharing DNA with police forces/whoever can be changed later. Too late when you've voluntarily given your DNA already.

MLMshouldbeillegal I didn't say you were making assumptions or being silly. This 70 year old seems, from what you've written to be jumping to conclusions with possibly not all the facts, from what you wrote

Just for your info Scotland had two pieces of case law related to Common Law wife. Around 1909 a lady moved in with her partner, took his name, and they presented themselves as Husband and wife. He died months later, the court ruled she was Common law wife.

This^

I was in the Rabbie (Robbie) Burns centre a few years ago. Scotland's poet was only formally married later in his his life. Prior to that he had, I think, a 'marriage' similar to that above. Back then, it seemed there were three ways of getting married:

1. Formal marriage ceremony, probably in church. (Or in the Minister's residence next door as happened to my DH's Grandad who in the 1930's was a widower who married his 2nd wife, a spinster. She was Christian but not Presbyterian. Or was it because he had already been married, I forget the reasoning but the details on, 'place of marriage' is clearly written on their marriage certificate !)

1. Formal marriage ceremony at home. The Minister/celebrant or whatever was required at that time would be in attendance.

1. No formal marriage ceremony but you presented as a married couple and were just that to all intents and purposes.

Re. your small percentage of Irag/Iran/Turkey DNA, OP - the ethnicity shown by DNA goes back much much further than recent ancestors. Ancient DNA shows how populations moved thousands of years ago. Apparently one person in nine in the UK has Iraqi DNA, so you are not alone.

If you want to make it really a burner account, you'd be best using someone unrelated's credit card, too.

I recently got locked out my PayPal account when I was trying to update my contact details. When I called to sort it out, they said they would check against my financial data held by a company I'd never heard of, LexisNexis, and ask me questions not only about my own past transactions but about people who shared the address they had on file for me (from which I had moved, so of the new occupants? I put the phone down at this point, so didn't find out).

This is LexisNexis:

risk.lexisnexis.com
Vast Data Assets
We maintain over 6 petabytes of data from 10,000+ sources.

Global Reach
We work with customers in more than 100 countries.

OP sorry if I have got this wrong

Is it that two different companies have given you different results?

I did one and discovered that my dad isn't my dad (at age 45). Its a very weird feeling but I'm very glad I know and it has resulted in some very necessary health related information coming my way that I have acted upon. I have also found 2 new half brothers. I don't think secrets are ever a good thing and I'm really glad that DNA test sites like ancestry exist. But YANBU there should be plenty of health warnings (I think there were on ancestry but I don't recall - I ignored them all anyway as I was so sure who my parents were.)

@DaisyNGO

OP sorry if I have got this wrong

Is it that two different companies have given you different results?

No, not really. My DNA matches are the same across all sites because that doesn't change. My DNA is fixed and so is that of other people who have tested.

Their "ethnicity" matches are more subjective and can vary between sites.

@PerkingFaintly Fuck me... What the actual... 1 petabyte is 1000Terabytes, They have 6000 Terabytes - 6 million gigabytes of peoples information
That is shocking. So glad I'm a Gen X with an old phone, think of how much people have on their phone, insta, tik tok, bank details, dating apps, retina scans and finger prints to unlock your phone. The data asset companies must be having a field day with ALL that info.

@ToffeeNotCoffee
When we were getting married our minister made a comment about church weddings being a fairly recent thing, pre the 50s few people could afford a church wedding, vestry, home, the village hall were common alternatives.
In Scotland "the church" is seen as a body of people and can gather anywhere rather than "the church" being a building.

ToffeeNotCoffee, this is only in Scotland though, the situation was not the same elsewhere.

LexisNexis is also involved with healthcare data in the US. Some of this is about account management, but it clearly states the software integrates with the Epic software which appears to hold full patient records.

I have no idea which company has what personal healthcare data for residents of Atlanta, or what derived products and so-called insights from personal healthcare data. I'm sure each US state and each country has laws constraining some data-processing activity – but it certainly ain't being constrained by tech any more. The capabilities are here.

And it's such a fast-moving and lucrative area that laws are frequently inadequate, unenforced and anyway easily changed by lobbyists.

risk.lexisnexis.com/about-us/press-room/press-release/20211026-epic-app-orchard

10/26/2021
ATLANTA — The Health Care business of LexisNexis® Risk Solutions has announced that its LexisNexis® Healthcare Identity Management platform is available through the Epic App Orchard, a marketplace for applications integrated with the Epic electronic health record (EHR). Any health system or healthcare provider using Epic can directly access this market-leading identity and access management (IAM) solution via the App Orchard. The IAM technology also supports providers who deliver services to native Spanish-speaking patients.

LexisNexis Healthcare Identity Management is the first solution of its kind available in the Epic App Orchard. It offers identity verification and authentication services for healthcare organizations that are onboarding new patients to their healthcare portal. The IAM platform provides better, low friction access to account information while bolstering data security. It does this by validating in real-time if the combination of attributes being used to open an account, such as name, address, phone number and/or date of birth, belong together and to an existing identity, and if the patient requesting access is the owner of that identity. That identity is instantly verified and authenticated against the industry’s most robust collection of identity data providing an unmatched level of authentication and fraud prevention during new account openings.

LexisNexis Healthcare Identity Management links billions of public and proprietary records from thousands of data sources, allowing providers to instantly verify and connect almost every U.S. adult consumer identity – including the more than 40 million unbanked individuals.

“Epic houses health records for more than 250 million patients. Matching that scale, LexisNexis Risk Solutions provides Epic customers with the largest identity data set available to the healthcare industry. Together with Epic we are providing a best-in-class identity access management capability to hundreds of healthcare organizations across the U.S.,” said Jeff Diamond, President and General Manager at the Health Care business of LexisNexis Risk Solutions.