To be annoyed they've cancelled my son's nativity

[JudesBiggestFan]

I'm just so tired of the arbitrary and pointless decisions that rob children and parents of yet more joy.
Last year my son had his nativity play cancelled at preschool. This year, the school (after designating him a shepherd and giving him a line...the excitement!) have cancelled again. Because Covid. Never mind all the pubs, restaurants, Christmas shopping, family parties that all the kids, teachers and parents will be going to.
The nativity is some kind of super spreader event that must be forfeited!
It's not going to make the news, but I'm just so bloody tired of it all. He'll never be this little and innocent again...I tolerated it last year but my patience is gone.
Anyone who wants to be is jabbed, we have lateral flows, it's as safe as it ever will be.
Yet the commercial stuff can go on, but the pure joyful ness of a kids Christmas nativity can't. Just wanted to vent really. No point complaining in real life anymore!

My view is the nativity is more for parents than for the kids

No. Almost all of my most vivid memories from primary school in particular are based around large scale social events - drama productions (my school was big on these), choir trips to the Royal Festival Hall, summer fetes and Christmas bazaars (being deemed ‘grown up’ enough to go round with my friends) and the school journey. And bizarrely whole school assemblies, as at my school we sang ABBA and Boney M songs instead of hymns

We probably did some learning as well (not that much, mind; it was the ’80s) but I barely remember than in comparison.

@Woohooforwine

I think people are missing the point, it’s not just about a nativity.

It’s about sending our kids to nursery and school without chance to look around or meet the teachers, no parents evenings, no events that we look forward to in this country, harvest festival, Halloween party, nativity etc. Its not being able to see family last Christmas, not being able to see a GP, dentist, SALT. It’s the delays in surgery and referrals. It’s being told ‘because of covid’ for EVERYTHING. It’s being made to wear masks again, it’s being threatened with another lockdown despite getting our vaccines..it’s just bloody everything 😩

Yes, that's it exactly. The nativity is the straw that breaks the camels back. It's everything that has been sacrificed, large or small, so much of it by our kids. I had my jabs happily, so did my parents, so the kids could live a normal life again. But it's never enough...no matter how low the rate of mortality. And as long as many people just accept it, I can't see how this ends.

I think the problem is that every parent says they’d give up all their freedoms so their child could have a normal life, but you’re gonna struggle to get the general public on board to taking the risk of getting sick so that other people’s kids can have nativities and sports days and whatnot. Unvaccinated people are subjected to greater restrictions than vaccinated people.

What do you suggest? If your only suggestion is “remove all restrictions!” then you shouldn’t be surprised if others who don’t share your risk assessment level or love of your children are like “no thanks”.

We had sports day! We are having nativity.Most schools are.

@AudacityBaby perfectly summed up!

@TempsPerdu

My view is the nativity is more for parents than for the kids

No. Almost all of my most vivid memories from primary school in particular are based around large scale social events - drama productions (my school was big on these), choir trips to the Royal Festival Hall, summer fetes and Christmas bazaars (being deemed ‘grown up’ enough to go round with my friends) and the school journey. And bizarrely whole school assemblies, as at my school we sang ABBA and Boney M songs instead of hymns

We probably did some learning as well (not that much, mind; it was the ’80s) but I barely remember than in comparison.

It does not follow that you would have been detrimentally impacted if the nativity play had not happened in front of an audience, so long as there was something alternative and enjoyable.

It is important for parents not to project their memories onto their children I think.

And I agree no nativity for 4/5yo but 18yo nightclubbing is non sensical

I am the mother of a soon to be 18yo. It breaks my heart that he has had so few "normal" teenage experiences, yes that includes clubbing. This year 13's were still 15 when the first lockdown came. Now they are nearly 18 and have had no gigs, no parties. I am not not deriding the DC who haven't been able to do the nativities, but night life is important for socialisation of older teens.

You do realise schools won’t be making decisions like this lightly?

It will be based on the local situation, the demographic of the school, the space they use for the plays etc etc.

Schools are between a rock and a hard place at the moment trying to keep everyone safe while also helping the children as much as is needed after the last few years

@AudacityBaby

I think the problem is that every parent says they’d give up all their freedoms so their child could have a normal life, but you’re gonna struggle to get the general public on board to taking the risk of getting sick so that other people’s kids can have nativities and sports days and whatnot. Unvaccinated people are subjected to greater restrictions than vaccinated people.

What do you suggest? If your only suggestion is “remove all restrictions!” then you shouldn’t be surprised if others who don’t share your risk assessment level or love of your children are like “no thanks”.

Yeah, I get that. The trouble is, the country is divided. I and many others are forced to share the risk assessments of the more cautious all the time, despite our own judgement.

@Amberflames

My view is the nativity is more for parents than for the kids

I don’t think that’s true. The memories might last longer but they are hugely effected by stuff like this in the short term.

DC1 was distraught when we couldn’t go into school for a class assembly a few months ago. It was cancelled a couple of days before due to high case numbers in one of the year groups.

They’re going to be upset all over again if the Christmas concert gets cancelled too.

And it is the cancelling that is causing the upset. Which is why I wish schools would prioritise what can be reliably delivered and then be more likely to stick to it.

IMO parents are causing this problem by constantly asking for more - which then gets cancelled.

@JudesBiggestFan LMAO at the idea that we are sharing the risk assessment of the most cautious in England!

Johnson is a gung ho tosspot, it is precisely because schools have had so few restrictiosn that cases are so high and things having to be cancelled.

What we need is a steady state, not fucking stop-start-stop-start.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

And I agree no nativity for 4/5yo but 18yo nightclubbing is non sensical

I am the mother of a soon to be 18yo. It breaks my heart that he has had so few "normal" teenage experiences, yes that includes clubbing. This year 13's were still 15 when the first lockdown came. Now they are nearly 18 and have had no gigs, no parties. I am not not deriding the DC who haven't been able to do the nativities, but night life is important for socialisation of older teens.

Teens too have missed out so I agree with you and op

[quote rrhuth]@JudesBiggestFan LMAO at the idea that we are sharing the risk assessment of the most cautious in England!

Johnson is a gung ho tosspot, it is precisely because schools have had so few restrictiosn that cases are so high and things having to be cancelled.

What we need is a steady state, not fucking stop-start-stop-start.[/quote]
@rrhuth so children should continue to be punished for that? My 7yo can't read or write, she can't have any assessments to see if it#s a learning difficulty because "covid" according to our school no external visitors are allowed in, it's been cancelled 3 times, at what point do we say enough, isolate if positive, test if a close contact, but the rest carry on as normal?

It's not just about the carol concert being cancelled for me, its about how I can go about my normal business but my DD can't even have a simple assessment in the environment its best to have it in.

I fear for all those DC like my DD who may never get the chance to read and write because of the lockdowns and effect of them.

@GlitterBlueonCharcoalGrey no of course children shouldn;t be 'punished' - that is exactly my point, if we had a steady state things wouldn;t be in such a mess and there would be fewer issues with vital services such as the assessment you speak of.

But covid won't go away because people want it to, the government needs to have a sane strategy that prioritises the most important needs. If that had been in place, the assessment maybe wouldn;t have been cancelled.

Schools have been told they can’t stop visitors for things like assessments so that is down to the individual setting and needs tacking with them/the local authority

AudacityBaby
I think the problem is that every parent says they’d give up all their freedoms so their child could have a normal life, but you’re gonna struggle to get the general public on board to taking the risk of getting sick so that other people’s kids can have nativities and sports days and whatnot. Unvaccinated people are subjected to greater restrictions than vaccinated people.

What do you suggest? If your only suggestion is “remove all restrictions!” then you shouldn’t be surprised if others who don’t share your risk assessment level or love of your children are like “no thanks

So in the debate over masks, we are often told that wearing one is a sign of compassion, of empathy for others and of civic responsibility - and that those who choose not to have no care for others. ‘I wear my mask to protect you’ etc. Many non-vulnerable people, myself included, would be willing to take the relatively low Covid risk to themselves, but wear masks anyway where necessary to protect the vulnerable.

I think you can also apply this argument to children and those who do/don’t have them. Children, whether they are your own or not, represent the future of society. They will be society’s leaders, taxpayers and fill all of society’s key roles in the not too distant future. It is in all of our interests that coming generations are well adjusted, well educated and provided with all of the life skills and opportunities that they need to thrive - yes, including Christmas parties and nativity plays. However, I personally don’t think we have taken the younger generations’ current and future needs into account at all in our pandemic response so far; rather than protecting our youngest we have often ignored or vilified them, other than on the odd occasions when they can be used as political leverage.

What would I do? Well I’m not sure lifting all restrictions is a wise idea at this point, but I would certainly make a concerted effort to stop trivialising the impact that these measures are having on our kids and throw a shedload of public resources at mitigating the fallout from them.

@Sirzy

Schools have been told they can’t stop visitors for things like assessments so that is down to the individual setting and needs tacking with them/the local authority

@Sirzy I have tried to but been told because the schools in the middle of an outbreak they're allowed to cancel it. Just feels really unfair that in one breath I'm being told she needs the assessments or next year she won't make any progress at all, to the next being told they can be cancelled with no idea even if she'll get them.

It does not follow that you would have been detrimentally impacted if the nativity play had not happened in front of an audience, so long as there was something alternative and enjoyable

@rrhuth But it does follow that I might have been detrimentally impacted if none of it had gone ahead, as has been the case for many children over the past several school years.

And isthere something alternative and enjoyable on offer, really? From speaking to the many teachers in my own family and friendship circle it seems that events that are cancelled are not being replaced by anything else, or that indoor nativity plays morph into a few carols in a cold school playground performed to a masked audience of parents.

[quote Italiandreams]@Laiste can you explain to me how you see the back up situation working?[/quote]
@Italiandreams sory i'm late, but i think you've mixed me up with another poster. I don't think i've mentioned back ups :)

@TempsPerdu

It does not follow that you would have been detrimentally impacted if the nativity play had not happened in front of an audience, so long as there was something alternative and enjoyable

@rrhuth But it does follow that I might have been detrimentally impacted if none of it had gone ahead, as has been the case for many children over the past several school years.

And isthere something alternative and enjoyable on offer, really? From speaking to the many teachers in my own family and friendship circle it seems that events that are cancelled are not being replaced by anything else, or that indoor nativity plays morph into a few carols in a cold school playground performed to a masked audience of parents.

Yes you might have been but equally you might not have been, that is what I meant when saying 'so long as there was something alternative and enjoyable'.

My school has done a good job of saying 'what can we do instead' and making it fun. So for example all end of year reward trips have been cancelled, they didn't even try for fear it would get cancelled late. They have done excellent end of year reward activities in school instead. Even when in bubbles they made it work - the kids even said it was just as good.

If the best idea someone can come up with is carols on the playground, the issue is a lack of creative thinking IMO. People who are desperate to hold on to what has always happened often get in the way of new ideas.

@TempsPerdu I don’t think we disagree - there needs to be huge investment in mental health and education provision. That was true pre-COVID and it’s more the case now.

I was specifically talking about expecting others to be comfortable with removing all restrictions for the unvaccinated. That’s not the same as the debate over mask-wearing, which is a minor inconvenience. Someone being concerned that removing all restrictions in schools is not a person who lacks empathy and any concern for others. If anything it’s someone who has empathy and concern - for anyone in the school who is vulnerable and could be seriously ill as a result. It’s really easy and emotive to target someone and say that they mustn’t care about the mental health and future of the nation, but in reality the balance is more nuanced than that.

I also think it’s a bit of a leap to go from “it’d be better to cancel nativity than have the school close surely?” (the gist of my previous comment) to me not caring about the future of this country.

Am sorry, v hard.

Cases are high but hospitalizations and deaths are not, especially if you look at the rates among vaccinated people.

Sorry not read through thread. Re the above hospitalizations and deaths are certainly considerably lower than last winter pre vaccine but we are into the third month of about 700 -1000 dying weekly from CoVid (15,000 in total since July 19) and have had around 7800 - 8000 in hospital for the last 5 weeks (was approx 30,000 at peak last year). I wouldn’t call this low. Hospitalisations and deaths in the rest of Europe have been much lower than U.K. since the summer until last couple of weeks. Now some v high but Spain, Italy, still remain considerably lower, France considerably lower until last few days. Germany about same as. U.K. last ten days or so until then much lower.

I'm a teacher, we're supporting children who have lost multiple close relatives to Covid. Is this something we can't do to try to protect other children from having to go through the same thing? Of course. How you can question this is beyond me. And i also have a 5 year old, I've missed the nativities and Christmas plays too.

@AudacityBaby I never meant to suggest that you didn’t care about the future of the country; I was referring in general terms to the way children have been treated by society throughout the pandemic.

And I don’t think the argument that because children remain unvaccinated they should be subject to more restrictions really holds from an ethical point of view. That view is currently being used in several U.S. states to keep two-year-old toddlers permanently masked in daycare and whenever out in public, with no possibility of an off ramp for this because there is currently no prospect of a vaccine for the under 5s. Unlike unvaccinated adults, it’s not primary aged children’s ‘fault’ that they remain unvaccinated, and we should not punish them for something over which they have no control.

I just think that we should perhaps extend some of the empathy we are expected to show for the clinically vulnerable to our young people. There are more ways of being vulnerable than just ‘susceptible to Covid’.

It's just a nativity (x2)
It's just a Christmas fair (x2)
It's just a sports day (x2 but you can watch the football/ tennis on TV)
It's just a residential trip
It's just a class outing (x2)
It's just a disco
It's just trick or treating
It's just a scout camp
It's just two birthdays
It's just a birthday party (x a lot!)
It's just a holiday
It's just Christmas
It's just a swimming lesson (or half of your allowence)
It's just an open evening
It's just a parent's evening
It's just seeing your mum's face as you walk out of school after holding it together all day
It's just a kiss before you walk through the school doors each morning
It's just 10 minutes waiting for your sibling (do not play! Keep your distance!)
It's just a play ground
It's just SEN support
It's just 6.5 months off school without access to friends (when you can hear the key worker children at playtime from your garden)
It's just to keep granny safe (even though the care home rules banned you from seeing her and it's now over two years and you barely remember her)

Good job kids are resilient isn't it eh?
It's just a nativity after all.