Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

AFAIK , there isn't a model like Stirling's for secondary education in England (PE aside), so all secondary teasers (and many primary teachers) have accidentally somehow ended p being teachers.

I think if we want to look at the non committed, we should be pointing fingers at Teach First. Many of them have no intention of staying beyond a few years. The whole model was set up to enable this.

Yes, we need people who get into teaching by whatever route to not pack it in due to ridiculous expectations.

@MrsHamlet

So people who did the postgrad "fell into it" and are not committed professionals? I'm not seeing it.

Well, not all of them, but it’s definitely less risky to do a nine-month PGDE unrelated to your undergrad if you find yourself at a loose end.

Teachers not teasers but somehow fits your drift!!

@noblegiraffe

As I said way back on the thread, we are far beyond the point where we can be picky about who to train to teach. Need to get in as many as possible because the govt have failed to meet recruitment targets for years.

People who fall into teaching can stick it out. Would be idiotic to exclude them.

So quantity over quality? Would you say that attitude shows respect for the profession?

No we don’t. We need committed professionals who find the job rewarding enough to stick around for more than five years.

You can be a committed professional, find the job rewarding and still leave before 5 years. I don't think there are many people who go into teacher training who think they'll be out within 5 years.

You have to pay tuition fees in England to do a PGCE.

@noblegiraffe

You have to pay tuition fees in England to do a PGCE.

So?

To be fair, the PGCE is one possible route of many.

Piggywaspushed

Or the government bursaries that encouraged people to do the course yet didn't require them to set foot in the classroom beyond the training.

So quantity over quality? Would you say that attitude shows respect for the profession?

So who will be teaching the kids who don’t have a qualified teacher at all?

At the moment it’s unqualified staff. You’d seek to increase that number.

@noblegiraffe

So quantity over quality? Would you say that attitude shows respect for the profession?

So who will be teaching the kids who don’t have a qualified teacher at all?

At the moment it’s unqualified staff. You’d seek to increase that number.

So no?

The only person I know who fts your bill as someone who drifted into teaching is my DH who couldn't do much else with his degree in the early 90s when PGCEs were free. He hadn't done well in his degree , but it was a maths degree forma good uni, and he has sporting talent so he was desirable to many schools.. He is still in teaching many many years later.

His PGCE was definitely related to his first degree.

@Whinge

No we don’t. We need committed professionals who find the job rewarding enough to stick around for more than five years.

You can be a committed professional, find the job rewarding and still leave before 5 years. I don't think there are many people who go into teacher training who think they'll be out within 5 years.

This! I was very committed but at year 5 left. I still work with children and use my PGCE. I might return once we have a return to sanity in education and the data lovers have remembered that children are people again.

I don’t think you can pre-identify who is still going to be teaching in 5 years, no.

@noblegiraffe

I don’t think you can pre-identify who is still going to be teaching in 5 years, no.

So instead, take in absolute anyone who wants to give it a go and cross your fingers that some of them will be literate/numerate enough that they’ll do a half decent job. I wouldn’t say that would raise the standard of teaching, or the public’s feelings towards it.

Des 'the public' actually know teachers' academic qualifications, or route through?? What parents tend to focus on is whether the teacher seems to be doing a good enough job with their child, in whatever way they measure this.

Pumperthepumper

Some of the best teachers that I know have been
Cert Ed
HLTA
or instructors.
The drive towards degrees and pushing a mainly academic curriculum has removed many potentially great teachers from the pool.

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

Some of the best teachers that I know have been
Cert Ed
HLTA
or instructors.
The drive towards degrees and pushing a mainly academic curriculum has removed many potentially great teachers from the pool.

But the pay (or pay scale, if you want) has also not made it an attractive enough proposition for potentially great teachers either.

Pumperthepumper

I don't deny that that is also the case but it doesn't have to be an either or scenario.

So instead, take in absolute anyone who wants to give it a go

Yes, that exactly right. Thinking that we shouldn’t exclude from teaching people who haven’t always wanted to be teachers or who did a PGCE means that I think we should accept any old random onto courses

What is it with these ridiculous leaps, like “I don’t think we should type endless data into useless spreadsheets” was met by you with “so you think we should never assess children?”

Try thinking a bit before you make these stupid posts.

For the record, I think teachers should have a degree, and for secondary, in a relevant subject, or with a SKE course.

I really would have put pay at the bottom of my motivations when I was a young thing. In fact, I find the idea of going into teaching because of the idea of high pay a little bit off. I'm an idealist. Lots of teachers are and tat is part of the reason why many leave. They rarely go to better paid jobs.

I think teachers should have a degree, and for secondary, in a relevant subject, or with a SKE course.

And teacher training. Obv.

@noblegiraffe

So instead, take in absolute anyone who wants to give it a go

Yes, that exactly right. Thinking that we shouldn’t exclude from teaching people who haven’t always wanted to be teachers or who did a PGCE means that I think we should accept any old random onto courses

What is it with these ridiculous leaps, like “I don’t think we should type endless data into useless spreadsheets” was met by you with “so you think we should never assess children?”

Try thinking a bit before you make these stupid posts.

For the record, I think teachers should have a degree, and for secondary, in a relevant subject, or with a SKE course.

You said this:

As I said way back on the thread, we are far beyond the point where we can be picky about who to train to teach. Need to get in as many as possible because the govt have failed to meet recruitment targets for years

And again, giving snippy little half-responses means I have to do a lot of work to work out what you’re trying to say. Why are you so defensive? Why so hostile?

Because you want everyone to do the work for you pumper.