Those who think teaching is easy should put their money where their mouth is

[noblegiraffe]

Teacher training applications which rose during the pandemic have now fallen to 15% below pre-pandemic levels when we already had a critical teacher shortage. The government's decision to slash bursaries is now looking completely idiotic.

www.tes.com/news/teacher-training-applications-drop-pre-covid-levels

The only thing that the government has put an appreciable amount of funding into recently related to schools is £24 million to ensure that they will all be Ofsteded within the next 5 years. With inspectors expected to massively reduce the number of outstanding schools, this is a punishing schedule rather than a supportive one.

This is causing Heads to quit, on top of how terribly they were treated during the pandemic (this continued with an email late Friday telling them that they once again have to take on the job of the NHS and set up covid testing centres for January, with orders needing to be in by Tuesday).

We already have a critical shortage of headteachers.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/nov/27/ofsted-inspections-headteachers-quit

I've noticed lots of posts on here from people who think that teaching is easy, that school funding is fine and there are no issues in schools, that you can leave at 3 and get lots of holidays.

So isn't it about time they put their money where their mouth is and trained as teachers? We are in dire need of them, and it's such a doss it should be a pleasure for them. A bit of a holiday even. And as it would be a public service, it would be guilt-free.

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/

@noblegiraffe

Computer generated targets aren't meant to be applied to individuals though. It is a massive misuse of them.

I think we’re just going round in circles here.

I’d love to see a more holistic approach to education but not because it makes my life easier- but because if we’re going to have massive mixed-ability classes, having to set children into early/first level ability groups isn’t the best way for them to learn.

There appear to be a lot of teachers on here who often talk about how hard the job is, the long hours, the fact they don't get all the holidays off.
I'm sure it is hard work and long hours but so are many other jobs, a lot of whom earn much less than teachers.
It's quite rare for people from other difficult jobs who also don't get all the holidays off to come on here and explain to everyone just how hard their job is.

Just wanted to nip in and say something really obvious:

If you have a recruitment and retention problem, you should do something to improve conditions.

Because you - clearly - need an incentive.

Or ... perhaps you don't?

Perhaps you can just scrape along, losing loads of entrants, quickly, because you have just about enough entering?

And you can just about get by losing staff because you can increase demands on those stool in the profession?

That seems to be where we are.

Which is a bit crap, really.

@thecatfromjapan

Micro-data collection is ignoring the horse situation.

I can't micro data my horse because he's leapt the fence and is running free.

"I'm sure it is hard work and long hours but so are many other jobs, a lot of whom earn much less than teachers."

So, back to the OP, they could always train up and join? Plenty of jobs available.

I’d love to see a more holistic approach to education

Removing the bullshit microanalysis of nonsense data isn't because I want a more holistic approach to education, but because bullshit microanalysis of nonsense data is a waste of everyone's time.

@Rosebel

There appear to be a lot of teachers on here who often talk about how hard the job is, the long hours, the fact they don't get all the holidays off. I'm sure it is hard work and long hours but so are many other jobs, a lot of whom earn much less than teachers. It's quite rare for people from other difficult jobs who also don't get all the holidays off to come on here and explain to everyone just how hard their job is.

Well, maybe we're the canaries in the coal mine?

Maybe we speak up - here - because we can?

And isn't that good?

Many mothers are teachers - it's no surprise there are lots of teachers on MN.

And what would you have us do?

Shut up about the shitty conditions because other people feel too ground down/are in smaller groups on MN and so can't be heard?

Yes, many people are working in crap conditions.

And we should speak out.

Not suck it up.

Oh, and I researched the impact of data collection and audit culture on working environments.

Oddly enough, most of the research in the public sphere (rather than on MN, where there are a lot of poorly paid mothers) concentrates on the impact in the university sector.

Because they have more social clout.

So, actually, a lot of people are complaining about working conditions, across many fields.

You just don't open your ears.

I guess you object to your slumber being disturbed.

And usually, any teachers referencing long hours and working in holiday periods are doing so in answer to some goady fucker or other who's accused them of finishing at 3 and spending all three lockdowns in their gardens.

It's quite rare for people from other difficult jobs who also don't get all the holidays off to come on here and explain to everyone just how hard their job is.

You'd think that parents on a parenting forum would be interested in the fact that the education sector is in meltdown? 🤷‍♀️

Over the years (and I've been posting threads about the crisis in education for a long time) it has become obvious that many parents are completely oblivious to the reality in state schools.

@noblegiraffe

I’d love to see a more holistic approach to education

Removing the bullshit microanalysis of nonsense data isn't because I want a more holistic approach to education, but because bullshit microanalysis of nonsense data is a waste of everyone's time.

But you’re also not willing to have a conversation about what you’d like to see instead.

But you’re also not willing to have a conversation about what you’d like to see instead.

Because I've already posted upthread? As has MrsH explained. We know how the class did on the test and which areas need extra work because we marked the test. The kid knows which areas of the test they need work on because they have their copy of the test.

Most of our staff is made up of older teachers who can't wait to retire. The job has changed so much and none of it for the better. We have a teacher with 4 years' experience who has already had enough. I don't know what the answer is, but the calibre of new teachers is generally very poor - can't spell, use grammar incorrectly, just generally not of the standard they used to be.

There are plenty of people who still think it's 9-3 with loads of holidays. There was initial sympathy for teachers when parents had to do online learning with their kids but that has evaporated.

@noblegiraffe

But you’re also not willing to have a conversation about what you’d like to see instead.

Because I've already posted upthread? As has MrsH explained. We know how the class did on the test and which areas need extra work because we marked the test. The kid knows which areas of the test they need work on because they have their copy of the test.

Did you always want to be a teacher noble?

I think the issue here is the difference between what schools want so they can wave it about and say "hey look at this" and what teachers need so they can support students.
I don't need a record of every single question level mark I've given Bob to know that he never writes enough (because he's lazy), that he misses the methods bit every time (because it's hard) and that he can't spell for toffee.
I also don't need that to tell me that I can't fix the spelling because he's dyslexic.
But SLT want it because they can then go "hey MrsH, Bob didn't do so well on Q3 so he needs some intervention" (and I reply - no shit, Sherlock)

This thread is so sad. I'd love to be a teacher in it's purest form but I can imagine how it is reading your replies.

Don't get me wrong: I love my job. It's the best job in the world. But it's crippling.

"Did you always want to be a teacher noble?"

Ah, here we go...

@CallmeHendricks

"Did you always want to be a teacher noble?"

Ah, here we go...

Where are we going?

I dunno, Pumper, why have you interrupted a conversation about how we can cut out pointless admin from teaching to ask me if I always wanted to be a teacher?

Nearly 20 years ago I temped at a Merseyside town hall collecting data from all the salary payroll systems to back up their Education Standards Fund grants before the annual audit by what was District Audit. This grant was given into the sticky mitts of the head teacher concerned to spend as they, and only they, saw fit. This would have been about 2003. There was one school which stuck in my mind. A young female teacher had received no pay rise at all during the 3 previous years, not even a cost of living rise, where her male boss, the head, saw fit to pay himself over £60k a year out of the 'kitty'. I was shocked.
Many years ago in either 1979 or 80, I was at a meeting with xh and a colleague and his wife. The wife was a lab technician at Balshaw's in Leyland. It used to be a highly regarded grammar school (dm went there in '26) and they had recruited a history graduate to teach chemistry. We couldn' t believe it. Even worse, the lab technician, qualified to either HND or LRSC in chemistry herself, had had to interrupt lessons on many occasions due to inherently dangerous instructions the teacher was giving to the class.
Sadly, there is nothing new in teachers being bullies or incompetent teachers being recruited, or teachers who do not know enough about their subject material to be safe, particularly in sciences where you can quite easily kill someone.
It's all down to human nature, after all. There are those who go above and beyond, and those who play office politics with one eye on the clock, who are generally the ones in charge.
It's just as bad in France. DD's primary head took retirement early years before could have done so because they were knackered with unending 'iniatives' from Paris. The final straw for him was ending Saturday morning school. For him, 2 days, a day off, and then 2 or 2 1/2 days made more sense and was more manageable for the children. 9am to 4.30pm, he had years 5 and 6 in 1 classroom, no TA, the school phone on his desk, which was also where he ate his lunch. They worked hard, but, when it snowed, he built a slide in the playground and was out there with the pupils, as he was every day. The change to the school week meant the end to the Saturday morning dictionary presentations with the mayor and the governors, always followed by wine and nibbles and a time for general chat, which was rather a shame.

@noblegiraffe

I dunno, Pumper, why have you interrupted a conversation about how we can cut out pointless admin from teaching to ask me if I always wanted to be a teacher?

Because I felt the admin discussion was getting a bit circular and I was sensing a reluctance from you to continue it. And then I realised that I never responded to your answer about the undergrad vs postgrad.

If anyone cares, I always wanted to be a teacher.

Yes, reluctant to continue a conversation where you keep asking questions that have been answered.

And I'm not going to answer your question about whether I always wanted to be a teacher.

@MrsHamlet

If anyone cares, I always wanted to be a teacher.

Did you do the undergrad?

@noblegiraffe

Yes, reluctant to continue a conversation where you keep asking questions that have been answered.

And I'm not going to answer your question about whether I always wanted to be a teacher.

Right. Well, did you get the answers from this thread that you were hoping for?