Advice on returning an iPhone

[StrongLegs]

Hi,

I wondered if I could ask for advice on returning an iPhone to John Lewis?

My AIBU is - would I be unreasonable to try to return it again even though it has been rejected?

I bought this phone on 11th November 2021 from John Lewis, and then tried to return it, but they will not take it back.

They said that that is because the box has been opened and the phone is scratched. However, I just got the phone back and it definitely it not scratched. It is easy to close the box because it just means putting the lid back on, and they had done that to send it back to me.

When I returned it to them I had included all the original packaging and the film that covers the screen, but they have binned the screen film before returning it to me.

Here is why I am returning it: I am not able to use LED backlit screens, because they give me a headache, and I had been hoping to use this phone by attaching it to my computer and viewing the phone interface on my Windows PC screen. That would mean that I could use the phone to send text messages, use apps, scan lateral flow tests and all that stuff. It's really tricky to manage without a smart phone these days, and this is the only way I can have one.

Anyway - it turns out that the mirroring software that is available for iOS doesn't work very well, so although I could see the phone interface on my screen, I could not control the phone from my PC. Since I couldn't use the phone, and after 2 days I decided to send it back.

The phone is in perfect working order, and I have never taken it anywhere, or made a phone call on it. I just attached it to my PC by USB cable for a couple of days, and then put it back in the box.

I have contacted John Lewis Customer Services on twitter when the phone arrived back, but there is no reply.

I wondered if you think I would be unreasonable to keep trying to return it? If not, how do I get in touch with them to try again? Does anybody have experience of this?

The alternative is to sell it at a loss on ebay.

Thanks

Yeah, you can't return it, you've used it - even if only for a little bit. It's not faulty, so they're quite within their rights to not let you return it I believe. Selling it is probably your only bet.

That is useful perspective thanks. :-)

It used to be that phones could be returned within 7 days even if used. I think it's possible that that was when they were bought on a contract though, that came with insurance. This was a sim-free handset, which might be entirely different.

I work for a bit retail company similar to JL and if you set up the phone in any way we would refuse it . If leads are taken out of packaging etc
You have to think most companies now resell products so as a customer how would you feel being handed that phone you’ve just spent nearly a grand on ? Would you be happy with it ?

Would changing the screen settings help? Try using True Tone or night shift? Or maybe a dark screen protector?

PrincessPeachh - unfortunately no, nothing works, and I have tried literally everything on other phones and laptops and computer screens. I'm really stuck.

The irony is that I can't even go into a shop and try a display model of the phones because the shops all have LED lights. It's really very difficult.

The chairty lightAware explains it in more detail if anybody would like to know more, or has the same problem. lightaware.org/

Btw, I know about 17 million people are probably about to post and say that I am being unreasonable, and it's okay, I do get that. I will sell the phone on ebay. Problem solved.

Thanks!

Off topic a bit but do you know what causes the headaches? In other words what is it about LED lighting? I sympathise as although not a sufferer I know other people's experience of LEDs is different and they are getting more prevalent.

Hi daimbarsatemydogsbone - thanks so much for asking. It's really kind of you.

The science is a bit incomplete on that unfortunately. I'm working with the group who are trying to figure it out and it's not totally clear.

The two main theories are:

1. Theory 1 is that it is partly caused by slow invisible flicker (100 to 300 times a second is the sweet spot for triggering migraines.) This is well understood because they had the same problem with CRT computer screens and TVs, and with fluorescent strip lights when they were first introduced. Over time laws were introduced to make slow flicker in these other situations illegal and the products were improved so that they didn't trigger headaches. However, it is not yet illegal to sell LED products with slow flicker, and that is causing mayhem for people who are sensitive to it.

The EU is working on bringing in legislation I think, but they are banning fluorescent lights and incandescent lights long before banning the harmful LEDs so there is going to be a period when it is impossible for some of use to buy safe light bulbs and that is quite worrying.

2. Theory 2 is that the light produced by LEDs is very blue and that particular colour of light causes trouble for some people (like me). I have special sunglasses with an apricot tint that do help a lot, but they don't totally solve the problem unfortunately.

3. Some people find that even flicker-free and tinted LEDs still cause them problems, so there is some other mystery factor that has not yet been figured out.

It's really a serious issue though, because these lights are everywhere now. In hospitals and GP surgeries, libraries, schools, and shops. The street lights are LED, and car park lights, and everything. I know some people have lost their jobs because the lights were changed in their office building, and now they are working freelance from home and unable to go anywhere.

I'm writing this on a ten+ year old fluorescent backlit apple screen and my mobile phone is a 1990-ish Nokia.

I wrote to several companies who made display screen technology when the problem first became clear, and I met a very senior engineer from one of the companies. He told me that the display technology people are extremely well aware that this problem exists and they just don't know how to solve it. He says there will be a truckload of money going for the first company that manages to come up with a solution to the problem.

The odd thing is that I understand that there were low energy incandescent bulbs designed in the US, but they were overlooked in favour of LEDs. It's not clear why.

Unfortunately your statutory rights only entitle you to a refund if it is faulty so JL are not obliged to refund you. If it has been opened they can’t resell it so they would lose money. YANBU to keep trying but I doubt you will have any success.

Some screens use flickering as a way to produce less light, so that when the user dims the screen, the screen actually starts flickering instead of actually being less bright. That is called Pulse Width Modulation.

You can tell which screens use that by looking at this website:

www.notebookcheck.net/Why-Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-is-such-a-headache.270240.0.html

They test all the new screens coming out and put the data on their website.

You can sometimes see LEDs flickering, if you would like to do an experiment. All you have to do is go to a fairly new pedestrian crossing with the red man / green man controls. If you look at the red man / geen man sign and sweep your eyes from side to side, you will see many diffrerent copies of the man like a dotted line in your vision. That dotted line in your vision is caused by the on/off flickering of the sign.

Sorry I seem to be warming to this topic no end. Thank you for letting me get it off my chest.

They won't let you return it. They're quite clear about it, they wouldn't even let people return the ipad mini 6 because of jelly scroll as apple didn't accept it as a fault.

Your best bet would be getting an apple tv and Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and using the phone that way. Mirroring an iPhone on Windows is never going to be a seemless experience.

Have you tried all the accessibility settings though? You can alter the screen several different ways.

Re the lights in offices, it depends on the employer, mine turns the overhead light off for me. It's not easy to get them to do it though.

herestoyoucolinrobinson - thanks for the thoughts on that. That is really helpful.

I am going to switch to an android phone because my previous android smartphone worked just fine under remote control from my pc.

That's good that your employer is helpful.

I think Apple do let you return within a window, or at least they do/have done in the past for laptops. So doesn’t help you now but might be an option for others.

@stronglegs can i suggest not selling on Ebay , I've been scammed for a phone before and Ebay/Paypal 9 times out of 10 side with the buyer maybe try music magpie or a similar selling sight.

@2cantkeepasecret Thanks that is a good thought.

Worryingly I can't get the phone to turn on since they sent it back to me. I've had it plugged in for four hours and it still won't turn on. I really think I should check that it will actually turn on before I sell it.

That's really useful to know @Flamingolingo

[quote StrongLegs]@2cantkeepasecret Thanks that is a good thought.

Worryingly I can't get the phone to turn on since they sent it back to me. I've had it plugged in for four hours and it still won't turn on. I really think I should check that it will actually turn on before I sell it.[/quote]
If it won’t turn on then they have to take it back!

Oh, I just checked and Music Magpie will only give me £180. Mint condition brand new open box iPhone SE phones are selling for £250+ on ebay.

@tallduckandhandsome good point!

There are companies that specialize in buying used smartphones. I've used this one.

www.gazelle.com/iphone

It's very straightforward. It's based in the US but they may operate internationally or there are likely similar firms in the UK. They resell the phones internationally after they inspect them.

The phone does seem to be dead as a door nail unfortunately. I am now on hold to John Lewis Customer Service.

The hold music is quite nice.

LOL! Sorry I meant to say