To have told these guys to get off my driveway? (Bin)

[TheViewFromTheCheapSeats]

Thursday is bin day, wheelie bins are out at the boundary for collection. Other days my bins are near the kitchen door as it practical, round the back/at the side corner of the house.
Last night (Tuesday) in the dark I was a bit freaked out to hear people right outside my back door about 8:30pm. Just me and the kids home. Two guys, one with a clipboard, one with a torch looking in a bin were there.
They’d walked down my drive and down the side of my house to look in bins by the back door (you’d just about see them from the front as one bin was sticking out).
I was a bit shocked, thought they could be identify thieves / burglars casing at first and shouted ‘oi, get out! Out! What you doing?! Get out my garden!’ out of the upstairs window.
I followed to the front door and opened it and the guy was all defensive-that it’s his job to check bins for the council to see we haven’t put anything in them not allowed. Apparently everyone else understands this and has no problem/ he doesn’t expect to be shouted at.
I didn’t swear or carry on shouting, but I think most people would shout at two guys in the dark they found rummaging in their back garden? I just stepped out and locked the side gate and told them they could check in collection days as much as they like, but they have no right to enter as they please. Speaking to others they are definitely from the council.

1. In the dark wandering around houses isn’t on
2. What is in my bin outside collection days is my business, the kids sometimes make recycling mistakes and before I put the bins out I check the rubbish is in the correct bin
3. The bin men will only take the bins from the boundary, not even two foot down the drive. So why can these guys walk around the house?

He also popped a letter through the door after a few minutes that’s a warning letter about the recycling, threatening an £80 fine if we put out non-recycling items again. He’s written in the blank space there was ‘food packaging’ in the recycling bin. Apparently they have recorded this. I’ve been to check the in bin this morning and I can’t see anything in the wheelie bin that’s not allowed! There’s food packaging like clean Tins etc, but nothing not on the website list. Also, the bloody bin wasn’t even out for collection.

Aibu to write a complaint? Partly regarding the first step of an £80 fine!

Send the council and the company this, from the gov.uk website:

"When you cannot issue fixed penalties
You cannot issue them for minor problems, such as when householders:

put something in the wrong receptacle by mistake
forget to close receptacle lids
leave receptacles out for a few hours before a collection"

1 and 3 YANBU
2 YABU - you need to put the right stuff in your bins

What's the legal basis for a fine for getting your recycling wrong? Sounds like the whole company is a scam

And doesn't a fine for fly tipping have to come from magistrates?

Is your local paper aware? Because none of this sounds legal, it's like those car parks who were imposing 3 figure 'fines' with no legal basis.

If it's a scam it's needs to be stopped if it's the council what a waste of tax payers money. Either way it's not on. You are doing the right thing op by raising it with your local council.

@Floralnomad

YANBU , if they want to check what’s in bins they should come round on the same day as the binmen and check at the roadside .

I've seen that happen here. I was stuck behind a bin lorry and there was a separate council employee checking what was in a load of overflowing bins. But it was broad daylight and the bins were on the pavement!

It sounds like your authority is ha ing huge problems with recycling targets and they are using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
However clearly this is nit the way to do it.
How dare they spook people!
As I said before I have oar el delivered and they go I b the rec8bin if we are not at home. Would they threaten to fine me if the ground a Boots Star gift parcel there on a Tuesdaynight when my recycling doesnt go out until the following Monday? Crazy.
Somebody really needs to kick up a fuss.
Do you fancy doing a Dail Mail sad face next to your bin?🤣

It sounds like a scam

It doesn't. But in MNLand everything is a scam.

I'd be investing in a gravity bin lock. That would put a stop to the snooping.

Ah, I’m doing twelve things at once here and relying on predictive text a fair bit tbh

But if I had a counsellor I’d probably be venting 😂

YANBU, and your council are BVU. We pay extra for big garden waste bins and for the garden waste bins to be collected once a fortnight. But in winter we don't use them as much and I put the clear bags of mixed recycling in there (so they don't get manky and soaked) until rubbish collection day. I never put the garden waste bins out with recycling in them. What I put in the bins until collection day is entirely my affair AFAIC.

I would Google the company. Then write q formal complaint to them regarding this.

I'd then write and put a formal complaint in with the local council and put a copy of the complaint to the company in too. Point out in the letter that whilst the service was provided by the external company, it was the council's choice to associate with them, and subsequently they are at risk of reputational damage. Ask the council to clarify what the company is contracted to do for them.

Lack a reasonable response to either of the above - MP. Then ombudsman.

Aside from the obvious, if they tripped and fell they would be suing you, as that's the mad law we work under.

I would write the letter and unequivocally state that they and any other council staff are not to enter your propety without permission again.

After checking it would appear that even if what they're doing is sanctioned by the council they aren't following the legal process for issuing fines anyway which has to go through a 3 stage process as explained on this government website and what they gave you didn't even cover the basics as required in stage 1.

It also is clear from that website that what you did, didn't warrant a warning of a fine, so they were attempting to abuse their power after being stopped by you:
"When you can issue fixed penalties
You may issue them when householders do not follow your waste collection rules, and their failure to comply does one of the following:
-causes or is likely to cause a nuisance
-has a negative effect or is likely to have a detrimental effect on local amenities".

I might have missed it - did you get car number, did the men have any id?

Get back in touch with the council and don’t accept any ‘not out responsibility/we contract out’ chat. You pay community charge to them, they need to sort it out.

No joy? Then contact your councillor. My son is one. He gets a deal of complaints about bins. He would get you an answer/solution/explanation/take it further. His name/questions carry a bit of clout. If it was something wrong he’d involve the police etc. Its his job to do this.

How do I know my son isn’t your councillor? His council haven’t contracted out refuse collection to he lowest bidder.

WTF? It wasn't out for collection! Sometimes deliveries get put in the bin (whole other complaint, what if you didn't look...), would you get a fine for a parcel that shouldn't be there? Whenever IL's are here I have to sort through the bins before putting them out, as apparently they can't tell paper from plastic. Surely if it's still on your property AND the bins are your property they should have nothing to say about what you put in them, until they are on the street for collection.

And they should definitely not be skulking around people's houses at night!!

I would think it's illegal to go onto someone's property and go through their rubbish.

I've also used my spare bin (I have two recycling ones) to store things for a while that need to go to the tip. It's on my drive, and I paid for the bin, so should be able to do what I want!

Are you sure this is real? I’ve never heard of the council wasting council tax money on bollocks like this. Weird they’d send them out so late at night too, I’d be very suspicious personally.

This is creepy and odd. We had similar recently with an Amazon delivery driver pressing his face against our living room window, at 9pm, and shining his torch into the room to see if we were in before even knocking to find out. It frightened me to death! I certainly wouldn't expect this of the Council though.

I get so fucked off with men having no clue that their presence can be scary and intimidating.
Knock on the door, introduce yourself. Skulking round in the dark is frightening and intimidating.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

Depends what you mean by food packaging. A lot of the cellophane-y stuff can't be recycled at kerbside (though some LIDL stores are running a trial to collect it) but tins, glass and some plastics obviously can. And obviously it varies from council to council.

Co op also collect cellophane, bread bags, pet food pouches, food bags etc

www.coop.co.uk/environment/soft-plastics/packaging-list

@Joystir59

I would think it's illegal to go onto someone's property and go through their rubbish.

If it isn't it should be.

All these people saying 'they are lucky I'd have called the police'

They'll be lucky snooping round the back of houses in the dark in the evening if they don't get a gun pulled on them somewhere.

Madness of course YANBU.

I would still report it to the police. It cannot possibly be legal to operate in this way, surely. The council won’t do anything, but if the police start getting reports of unidentifiable men entering property at night then some action might be taken.

If this is going on and public knows, it really wouldn’t be beyond the wit of fraudsters/ potential burglars to mock up fake recycling warning letters in case they get disturbed- plenty of housebreakers have pretended to be from utility companies to gain access. I would work on the basis that these men were not genuine.

I would also challenge the letter- you had not presented your bins for collection, insist they retract the warning.

Bin lock suggestion is good.

Whole thing sounds fishy.