Brother in law shooting grey squirrels

[NettleMania]

Is this an okay thing to do? AIBU to have a go if it's in his own garden?

I'm a bit conflicted as I have a live and let live attitude towards animals, but BIL swears it's not illegal to shoot them, that they're vermin and have chased off all our native red squirrels and that they're eating all the food he puts out for the birds.

He has tried other ways to get rid of them, but they are determined. My DS just shrugs and carries on with her knitting!

@Yants

So the UK native red squirrel was entirely extinct in Britain and all current red squirrels are due to reintroduction? And this UK red squirrel extinction occurred prior to the introduction of greys?

I wasn't aware of either of those things, what caused the reds to become extinct? Obviously habitat loss is the obvious answer but I would have thought at least in Scotland there would have been enough Caledonian Pine forest left for some small pockets of UK native reds to have clung on?

No, this is not true. Red squirrels have never gone extinct in Britain, and were very widespread at the time that grey squirrels were first introduced in the late 19th century. Check out the maps on the bottom of this link: www.wildlifetrusts.org/saving-species/red-squirrels

As others have said, there are always safety issues around gun ownership and gun use but I’m very surprised by the number of people who have such strong objections to this unless he is endangering bystanders.

Possibly because the events are a couple of hundred years apart and not quite accurate. Reading other reports it seems that, the deforestation for navy ships, houses, etc, caused red squirrels to become became nigh on extinct in Scotland and rare in England. They were reintroduced from England to Scotland, from Scandinavia to England and Scotland - in the 1700s - and by the late 1800s had taken full advantage of conifer reforestation - had been descibed as 'plague proportions' in some areas. They, red squirrels, were so populous they were culled!

Greys were introduced in the late 1800s, Woburn Park, amongst others, raised and sold many squillions of them, and a rapid decline due to weather, food issues, and virus, hit the red hardest.

So maybe they weren't extinct here...

I worked in a vets last year and we had a baby grey squirrel brought in. My colleagues wouldn’t take it because there is a legal requirement to put to sleep any grey squirrels brought into veterinary centres or rescue centres. I was so shocked but there was nothing I could do because if I took it they would had to have to destroyed it.

My DH shoots grey squirrels. There are some bodies on our patio right now

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

It's not fine at all. God this is exactly what is wrong with the world. People disgust me. I am so glad I am raising my kids to cherish every living being and not put some above others.

Utterly vegan? Check every purchase, insurers, pension pots, etc?

As far as practical and possible in the disgusting world we live in yes.

You use another bullet. Double tap. You never leave an injured animal suffering.

well that does assume that the squirrel doesn't run away.
a squirrel can be hurt and run off. You then can't get them to shoot them the second time can you?

@Justtobeclear

I worked in a vets last year and we had a baby grey squirrel brought in. My colleagues wouldn’t take it because there is a legal requirement to put to sleep any grey squirrels brought into veterinary centres or rescue centres. I was so shocked but there was nothing I could do because if I took it they would had to have to destroyed it.

yes, and if you catch a grey squirrel, it is illegal to release in many places, you have to kill it.

There is so much wrong information on this topic.
The RED did not die out there are few places to get new stock from.
If you capture any Grey or some other species it is illegal to release them. Because greys spread diseases.
We are protecting all kinds of top predator that are killing, eating or driving away native species.
Badgers, foxes and Greys are voracious eaters of ground nesting birds their eggs and the young. Skylarks Harriers and Avocets & more.
They also enjoy baby hedgehogs. That is why they are now scarce.

Magpies, Crows and the other corvids also demonise the songbirds.
We have to cull to save some species, Finches and blue tits or greys and Crows?
We have to make the choices.

@steppemum

You use another bullet. Double tap. You never leave an injured animal suffering.

well that does assume that the squirrel doesn't run away.
a squirrel can be hurt and run off. You then can't get them to shoot them the second time can you?

You follow the squirrel. It will be slow and bleeding. Honestly have you never read up WikiHow on how to hunt?

@steppemum you don't 'have' to do anything. I certainly wouldn't kill a squirrel. And I have released a number back into the wild. I'd like to see someone make me kill one.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@KittyDee
There are 2.5 million grey squirrels in UK compared to 140,000 red squirrels. Squirrels in general are not in decline and there hasn’t been habitat loss. Actually opposite because of rewiliding efforts and the fact that agricultural land is being used for new housing, not forested land. The red squirrels are in decline because of the grey squirrels. Not humans. Although humans introduced the grey squirrels so are partly to blame.[/quote]
Sorry I meant to say the reason why there are hardly any RED squirrels is because of habitat loss( they are more particular on the trees they can live in and the food they can eat than greys) and being killed by humans.

This habitat loss and killing of red squirrels drastically reduced their numbers and largely happened before grey squirrels were introduced in the 19th century.

I appreciate where they live together the greys out compete and can cause further declines, but they are not the root cause of why there are few red squirrels.

I also don’t feel it’s right to kill just because something is not native. Where does that stop?

[quote AllThingsServeTheBeam]@steppemum you don't 'have' to do anything. I certainly wouldn't kill a squirrel. And I have released a number back into the wild. I'd like to see someone make me kill one.[/quote]
Well of course you don't have to kill a squirrel there are others who will do that for you so that you can enjoy birds that managed to fledge because someone took responsibility for protecting them 🙄

So the UK native red squirrel was entirely extinct in Britain and all current red squirrels are due to reintroduction?

No. Red squirrels have never been entirely extinct in Britain. They have been reintroduced to some specific areas of the country where they had died out.

This habitat loss and killing of red squirrels drastically reduced their numbers and largely happened before grey squirrels were introduced in the 19th century

That was in the 1700s and been reversed by the planting of vast tracts of pinewoods in the 1800s. So much so that the red was regularly culled as they had reached what was reported as 'plague proportions'.

It isn't as simple as some like to report in either defence or condemnation fot eh grey squirrel. But no, the red squirrel was not totally extinct here in the UK!

I also don’t feel it’s right to kill just because something is not native. Where does that stop?

Agree, but in case of the grey squirrels it is protecting the vulnerable red squirrels. If there had been no squirrels or if the red and grey could co-exist equally, then agree no reason to kill the grey ones.

I hope he shoots his own leg off.

With an air rifle? You'd have a job.

I'd give it a bloody good go. Do you think OP's BIL would stand still long enough for me to do it? 🤔

Another person telling you grey squirrels are vermin. We shoot them with an air rifle, and the dog sometimes catches and kills them too. It was one apiece last weekend!

I think I have met about two people in my life that would be ok with killing a squirrel and they hunt animals too.
Seems to be a disproportinate number of posters that are ok with killing animals for a site aimed at women.
I am aware that women are fully capable of 'dispatching' squirrels and other 'vermin' personally I am yet to meet one in my lifetime, but I know they exist, just strange that mumsnet seems to be a haven for them.

Get some rats or some squirrels in your roof and then see how you feel about it.
All this lofty stuff about killing being disgusting… very unrealistic.
There is no living organism on this planet that does not live by killing something else, either by consuming them or by eradicating competitors or disease carriers.
Vegans included.

@TheBullfinch

Why dont they just use squirrel-proof bird feeders?

Because squirrels are smarter than us and can infiltrate anything supposedly squirrel proof.

Because you don’t know who we are.

There are plenty of things friends and family in real life don’t know. Only certain people know certain things. You tend to share those with people who seem to be on the same wave length.

shooting grey squirells in a safe place is not illegal. WHERE he shoots them, might be.
Air rifles must never be fired where the pellets could reach neighbouring land (and people in it). So if he's shooting in a small urban garden which has close neighbours he may be breaking the law.

Even if he is in a large rural garden he still MUST prevent any risk to neighbours. (Years ago my neighbours teen son was firing his air rifle (in their garden) and the pellets were raining on me in mine.
When his dad found out, he was far angrier than me.)

@Horst

Because you don’t know who we are.

There are plenty of things friends and family in real life don’t know. Only certain people know certain things. You tend to share those with people who seem to be on the same wave length.

I'm not sure if that comment is aimed at me ? Are you suggesting that we are a nation of secret squirrel killers, waiting in the sidelines to discuss are shameful past time ?