What do we do? 12 year old.

[nonamenameno]

My niece has lived in our home since birth raised by my parents and me and my Dsis, shes now 12 and turned into an absolute horror from going places without telling us, staying in a friends dad's flat overnight with no adult, never going to school and even watching men do inappropriate things on Instagram!

This weekend her friends stayed over they have written all over the walls, been setting fire to paper and coke cans (my mum didn't realise until I went round) and shes been screaming at my mum when she doesn't get what she wants.

We have spoken to her nicely, threatened her, taken things away she just does not care

What the hell do we do? She has two younger siblings that are effected by her behaviour also!

Some of these posts are batshit, I was raised in a 'stable home' and I did all of those things at 12/13.
For some, the rebellious teen stage just starts earlier. Also remember that there's SM pushing people to out do each other with wackier and wackier stuff, the same as it was all about dares in our day.
I'm pretty sure if the internet had existed when I was a 12 year old I would have watched porn, more out of curiosity. Instead I had to try to secretly record those late night channel 5 movies.
I would speak to her. Reinforce a few more rules, such as not letting her out with friends unsupervised. Check who her friends are. Are they older? I would worry if she was hanging out with much older friends. Also really check where she's going for sleepovers. Take her to the house, chat with the mum. I used to get dropped to the corner and then skedaddle.
Have a chat with her about sex sooner rather than later. I had lost my virginity before my mum had the chat, and had already had one pregnancy scare. So don't leave it too late.
Good luck, it sounds like you're all doing your best. Poor self esteem has a lot to answer for in these situations so keep bigging her up as well as telling her off.

Sorry just read the Mum has mental health issues. Great practical advice from the housethatchunkbuilt also.

I would look into her being assessed for ADHD or ADD. The questionnaire includes a question about whether the young person lights fires and her emotional outbursts suggest she is struggling with emotional regulation.

And it would also explain why she skips school.

I think your all right she needs a lot more supervision and consequence's, maybe thats something my mum can't do,

She has a lot in common with adopted children, who need a different approach to behaviour management and therapy because of disrupted early attachments and early trauma. If mum was using pre-birth there may also be issue re her development which may only be showing themselves now. It would be worth posting on the adoption boards - lots of very experienced and knowledgeable adopters who could help.

Sometimes a loving family just isn’t enough to counteract the impact of developmental trauma and separation - you need professionals who know about and understand trauma and it long term impacts, otherwise they’ll be trying to treat the wrong thing.

I probably do t know what I’m talking about as I have zero experience of social services but if her upbringing has been a ‘break from the norm’ why doesn’t she already have a social worker allocated since she was small? Has your mum just been left to cope for 12 years with no help from social services? If so, that’s appalling.

Would you or your sister taking her be an option @nonamenameno?

If her dad has only recently started seeing her more and giving her pocket money that might be part of the problem - she might be romanticising how great he is and how much better her life would be with him. She might need to be told a few home truths - ‘yes it’s good that Dad can see you more now but he lives in a home with nurses to look after him, he wouldn’t be able to cope with looking after you as he needs help to look after himself.’ ‘Oh Dad gave you a fiver? That’s great as it is expensive to pay for things children need. I know Grandma had to save up to send you on that school trip/pay for your phone etc.’

If she respects you more than Grandma it might be worth arranging with Grandma and her that you’ll call Grandma once a day for a while, at a time that suits your family, for five minutes to check in about her behaviour that day. Maybe incentivise it. If she gets a good report she gets an extra half hour TV, laptop, phone, couple of quid, ice lolly, new nail varnish - whatever would work but would be doable. And a bad report would mean no screen time the next day, or whatever would work for her.

I know it’s difficult for you as you have your own kids, but your mum has also raised her own kids and probably never asked to have 3 more and does need support.

I think it would be better to post on either the adoption or teenagers boards, you are getting some over simple responses to a complicated situation.
I am sure your Mum loves her grandchildren very much and wants the best but does she have enough energy for this?
Despite having support from extended family your Mum is effectively a single parent to three children one of whom has a lot of problems.
What can you and your sister help with? For example, is your Mum tech savvy enough to police the online activity or can your niece run rings round her on that.? Can you or your sister take over things like that?
Some of this may be related to peer group at secondary school but she is starting to form her identity and her mother having mental health and substance abuse issues and not bringing her up will be more in her mind than when she was younger.
Is her Dad a positive influence or undermining?
Do you think you are getting good help from CAMHS and other agencies?
This isn't easy at all and I think your Mum needs a lot of practical and professional support to help your niece.

Give DN a choice. Either, she "gets sivilised" like Huck Finn was made to.

Or, she is handed over to social services and put into care.

@2bazookas

Give DN a choice. Either, she "gets sivilised" like Huck Finn was made to.

Or, she is handed over to social services and put into care.

You want them to threaten a clearly struggling and traumatised child she'll be "handed over" like a piece of lost property or an unwanted gift?

I'm always amazed at these kinds of threads where parents or in this case family members portray a clearly traumatised child who is acting up as some kind of villain or a problem that needs to be removed from the family.

This girl has been left by her mum, dad, aunts (who moved out) and is now living with a granny who according to OP cannot cope with her, and she is having to share her only resident caregiver's limited attention with two other siblings. Not surprised at all that the poor girl is behaving erratically.

I am surprised at the OP's coldness and detachment: "it would be heart breaking to see her go into care after everything we have given up all the year's for her".

Or, she is handed over to social services and put into care.

You clearly have no idea what life is like in care for a traumatised 12 year old.

am surprised at the OP's coldness and detachment: "it would be heart breaking to see her go into careafter everything we have given upall the year's for her

Me to

she sounds like she's had a terrible first 12 years to her, abandoned by both her parents. It is hardly surprising the poor child is struggling in this way. she sounds like she has developmental trauma from her difficult past. Children who have suffered in this way need a huge amount of unconditional love, patience and tolerance. They also need firm, clear, consistent boundaries which are enforced. It is not easy to raise a child with these difficulties, and it sounds like it is just too much for the grandmother to do alone. The entire family really does need to pitch in and understand this isn't just ''acting out''..

some of it is normal teen flexing their muscles stuff, but it's clearly gone too far - she needs to be reigned in with age appropriate boundaries and consequences else she'll just keep upping the ante. All this freedom is fulfilling her hypothesis that she simply doesn't matter... and any complaints about her behavior feed into the ''no one loves me'' fear that no doubt plagues her. I suspect puberty has only compounded the entire thing as her outlook on life, herself, choice will be fundamentally shifting.

Or, she is handed over to social services and put into care.

This is the very last thing this child needs.

It sounds like a really sad and difficult situation. She may have a need for life story work to understand what has happened and what is happening to her. This is supposed to be provided for fostered/adopted children, but unfortunately children in kinship care often miss out on this, and their families on support.

What is the legal situation? If she is under an SGO or CAO and has ever spent a day as a looked after child, you may be eligible for the Adoption Support Fund for money to access therapy. You may also be able to get more support from the school via the Pupil Premium or their general pastoral provision. If she was never formally looked after, but social services were in some way involved at the beginning, you may have wrongly been fobbed off by children's services. If children's services were ever involved, even if there was just one conversation at the beginning suggesting you look after her, I'd recommend you contact the Family Rights Group and they may be able to help you (they may be able to help you anyway. They have a free phone line and a message board). The charity Kinship also has a phoneline/email and also support groups in different areas. If there is no legal order in place, I think this needs to be rectified as soon as possible - the Family Rights Group may be able to help you. An awful lot of what you can access depends on her current and previous legal status unfortunately.

I would also contact children's services again, and also the GP. I also think that maybe looking at accessing books about parenting aimed at adopters/foster carers at your local public library and/or asking your local authority about any help or training they can give might help. Her complicated background may mean she needs a slightly different approach. I think you need to make it clear to the school, children's services, your GP - everyone - that things are in danger of breaking down and that you all need help now. It might also be useful to look at local kinship carer support groups, if there are any.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Or, she is handed over to social services and put into care.

You clearly have no idea what life is like in care for a traumatised 12 year old.

Going into care is not the worst thing that could happen to her.

Her family is at breaking point. Something has to change to prevent some truly tragic crisis.

She’s lost her birth mum, then people who effectively raises her have left home, she’s understandably having behavioural problems. Being taken into care would compound her early trauma, reinforce the idea that she’s expendable and at best conditionally loved, if not a chore to be taken care of. Being taken into care would be a disaster for her - believe me if her family can’t set boundaries for her that won’t improve in a residential home (which is more likely than foster care given her age).

It may not be the worst thing that could happen to her, but it’s very far from the best.

Sounds really tough for the whole family. At 12 she is approaching puberty and this will affect her moods.lighting fires with young dc around is obv dangerous. Is there a chance of moving school maybe .can her dad get through to her.your poor mum seems like she is struggling.