What do we do? 12 year old.

[nonamenameno]

My niece has lived in our home since birth raised by my parents and me and my Dsis, shes now 12 and turned into an absolute horror from going places without telling us, staying in a friends dad's flat overnight with no adult, never going to school and even watching men do inappropriate things on Instagram!

This weekend her friends stayed over they have written all over the walls, been setting fire to paper and coke cans (my mum didn't realise until I went round) and shes been screaming at my mum when she doesn't get what she wants.

We have spoken to her nicely, threatened her, taken things away she just does not care

What the hell do we do? She has two younger siblings that are effected by her behaviour also!

[quote nonamenameno]@SheilaWilcox and what is that supposed to mean? Shes been raised in a loving home with her whole family around her, it all went to shit when she started high school and met their wrong group of friends![/quote]
Sorry. I admit that wasn't very helpful, I just typed my gut reaction.

You seem in denial that the unusual living situation is bound to have an effect on someone at an age when they are trying to work out who they are and what they stand for.

I think I'd be asking HOW she is able to do some of these things without someone noticing (as her whole family is around her) and intervening.

It didn't go to shit when she started High School, the seeds will have been sown long before this.

@DeepaBeesKit

Whatever issues have led to her mum & dad not being around are maybe coming to the surface now and manifesting in these behavioural problems.

Have you talked to school?

Yes the trauma of her situation is probably coming to the fore. I imagine she feels incredibly rejected by her mum - and your poor mum is left to pick up the pieces.

Did her mum who birthed her take an active part in parenting her as a parent usually would? Did that change at any point? Why is she not living with her mum?

@nimbuscloud

Shes been raised in a loving home with her whole family around her

You said everyone moved out a few years ago. Does her mother have any involvement?

Shes been raised in a loving home with her whole family around her But you also say she's never lived with her Mum. Sounds very dysfunctional to me. And there are three of them; all left for your Mum to raise??

So she has no relationship with her Mom? What about Dad? And the two aunties she's grown up with have both recently moved out, so now it's just her and Granny and the little kids?

How much time did she / does she spend with her aunties?

going places without telling us, staying in a friends dad's flat overnight with no adult where did they think she was? What was the consequences?
never going to schoolare school providing help? What are your parents doing to make her go?
and even watching men do inappropriate things on Instagram! so she's accessing porn? Is she in contact with them? Is she being groomed? Is this on her phone?

This weekend her friends stayed over they have written all over the walls, been setting fire to paper and coke canshow loosely were they being supervised that she didn't even notice the same of smoke in her house? I really think there needs to be a conversation about your parents ability to parent these kids.

What's her relationship like with Grandad?

So her own mother moved out leaving THREE children with her parents / the children’s grandparents a few years a go?
This is absolutely going to affect them, whether the grandparents are loving or not. Does their mother have any/ much contact?

She is following a behaviour pattern that I've seen numerous times with fostered or adopted children or children who are being brought up by extended family in place parents who are alive but absent. She may be reacting to what shes now understanding more & feeling rejected by own mother etc. She pushing boundaries to the extreme.
Get help ASAP before she drops out of school & ends up in a situation that's dangerous

I used to work in safeguarding children and young people. My advice would be to report her as a missing child each and every time she does not return home as expected. The police can involve social services. She is not the only person at risk if her friend was also in the flat unsupervised, and running wild at your mother's home. Put in a formal written complaint to social services concerning the level of support for an obvious 'child in need'. Attend meetings with the safeguarding lead at her school, and request extra help. Schools have access to the school nurses who could make onward referrals. Attend the GP surgery and demand a CAMHS referral urgently. Do not be fobbed off. Write down examples of atypical behaviour and emotions, so you are not side-tracked during consultations with professionals. If she is already engaged in following adults on social media, this suggests she would be open and vulnerable to grooming , drugs etc. Therefore, strict control of technology access is required. Lots of parent guard software options are available. Look into child mental health charities at national and local level. They sometimes have grant funding for intervention programmes with children and young adults with emotional/ behavioural difficulties. Worth researching what is available in your region in terms of therapy. While the focus is on your niece, your mother and the rest of your family need support too. Respite care to give her a break could be an option. In a world of pandemics and limited funding, you will need to fight and not take 'no' for an answer when engaging with agencies. It is a tough battle and I wish you the best of luck!

@thewhatsit

So her own mother moved out leaving THREE children with her parents / the children’s grandparents a few years a go? This is absolutely going to affect them, whether the grandparents are loving or not. Does their mother have any/ much contact?

She's never lived with Mom so presumably Mom had her, passed her to Gran, had another one, passed her to Gran and so on.

This sounds awful for all concerned. I have a 12 year old and she is no where near old enough to have any of these behaviours. I agree, she needs tighter supervision, where on earth did they think she was when in the flat alone? Did no one check where she was? I still check in with parents if sleepovers, she doesn’t go out alone… she is still a child and if you don’t get a grip now then the next few years are going to be hell.

This sounds awfully tough on you all OP. I was a nightmare teenager. I think posters aren't quite realising that you cannot physically stop a 12 year old from leaving the house. They can be strong and quite nimble at jumping out of windows! All I can suggest is keep speaking with the school, consider moving schools of you think that will help. Ensure she has counselling of some sort. But most importantly keep telling her that you love her and be there as a support for your mum. Hopefully in a few years she'll come back to you again.

Op, in among some frankly insulting comments, you've had some good advice here.

I was just wondering how long it's been since you and your sister (her mum) moved out?

These events must be exceptionally hard for her to deal with if we assume she's deeply insecure, as seems likely. Especially if she's aware that her mum is your sister, which I assume she is; it must be torturing her that her mum moved away without her, whatever the reasons for it.

I have a 12 year old DD. Pushes us to test us. But no where near this. She tests us to check boundries.
Sounds like the poor child wants security and someone to intervene & parent her at a tough period of transition

@crystal1717

12yo is very young. You need to all look after her now. Or it will get far worse. Shes just a child and shouldnt be out on her own getting up to all sorts. Inappropriate things? We know what that means and it is a massive danger sign. You must protect her as she is a child. Stop leaving a well meaning ? but ineffective 60yo woman to ineffectively fail to care for her.

She needs parental locks on devices. Appropriate friends.
To go to school with a good (or better) attitude. She wants to do this. Please remember that.
Clubs - gymnastics, dance, football, guides.
Activities at home: baking, film nights, gaming
Do not let her out at night apart from to clubs which you take her to, and collect.

If you think the above is impossible, which it isnt with a 14 or 16yo no matter a 12yo who is a baby by teen standards then I do fear for this girl.
She will complain at first "its so unfair...i hate you.." but IGNORE this. She"ll thank you for it or at least youll save her from the depths of where this could go.
12yos are actually quite easily brought in line. They like baking (and attention and love).

This. 12 is still so young, she needs you.

@AmyandPhilipfan

I think little children accept their living situation and don’t think too much of it but as they get older they are more aware and maybe have more issues with it. I foster and have known carers have lots of problems with children 12+ who seemed very well adjusted when they were younger. My 12 year old foster son is very insecure of his place in my family and his place within his birth family. I have to have very strict boundaries otherwise he would definitely be out roaming the streets at all hours.

Has your mum let her get away with all sorts for years as she felt a bit sorry for her? If she hasn’t been strict when she was little then it might be harder to implement rules when she’s older, but she definitely needs to. I would say she needs to have a sit down with your niece to go through the house rules and set out what the consequences are if she breaks them. What will get through to her? Loss of phone? Console? TV? Pocket money?

This seems wise to me.

I think you have to accept that she is entering a tough phase, but you are right, her influencing the younger two kids is a concern.

How can the whole family support your mum to hold boundaries. How can social work division and school help you?

It’s really tough, all you can do is support your mum to provide as much of a solid boundaried base as possible. That’s the best chance of her coming good after a few wild years.

She know she scares your mum ,that will give her power .your mum absolutely must stand up to her ,or let someone else bring her up who can manage her
I suggest moving schools ASAP ,fresh area if possible.
Lock doors and windows so she can’t get out
Refer to camhs ,get social worker told this is not working and they need to support your mum ,before your mum says she can’t look after her .
Perhaps you op or your sister could take her on to give your mum a break ,if your mum is 60 ,you must be 30 ish ,maybe it’s your turn to help your mum out ,give this girl a fresh school in afresh area

What were the circumstances that Jed to her and her siblings being raised by gran? If it’s been a kinship care arrangement because of safeguarding issues, she may well be acting out due to early trauma. Even children removed at birth (when conventional thinking might be that they wouldn’t remember) still have to deal with early trauma and the trauma of not being with their birth parents.

It would be worth looking at therapeutic interventions used in adoption like therapeutic life story work (to help her process her life story thus far) and something like Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy which is focussed on supporting the child’s attachment patterns.

She will need support, she may be trying to cope with all kinds of feelings about her living situation and her relationship with her mum, especially if her mum has moved out etc.

I think you also have to consider that if you don't sort this now as a family, the two siblings may follow suit. Don't just leave your mum to cope with it all.

@nimbuscloud yes we all moves out but I still go round multiple times a week, so does my sister (not her mum) and she see's my dad (her grandad) twice a week, we have all had chats with her even my partner has about going down the wrong road and to spend more time with her family etc she sits and listens then within a week is back to the bad attitude etc, she is never horrible to my mum if any of us are there but as soon as we leave she changes.

@nohouseyet we have tried they are all full with huge waiting lists!

Does she have any contact at all with her mother?

@scoobydoo1971 thanks for the advice! She is under CAHMS already.

he’s got a loving family around her but I imagine she is acutely aware that the family doesn’t include her parents. Where are her mum and dad? Does she have any contact with them? If she feels like they have abandoned her then she may well be pushing and testing the limits of those who love her to see if they are just going to abandon her as well. You might know she’s in a loving family but she may not believe in unconditional love if she didn’t receive it from her parents.

Have you tried to get her help through the school? The counselling alone obviously isn’t working. Does she have a social worker? I would also suggest getting in contact and seeing if they can offer any help and support.

If she sees her grandad twice a week, I assume your parents are divorced. Visits from aunties and grandparents plus absent mum AND dad is not going to counteract the one adult she lives with being a pushover. I agree with laying down the hard line but your mum will need help.

@nimbuscloud no her mother is a drug addict with mental health problems, she see's her now and again if she comes round, she has started to see her dad as he lives in sheltered accommodation with nurses and has done a lot of work on himself he also gives her pocket money.

I think your all right she needs a lot more supervision and consequence's, maybe thats something my mum can't do, it would be heart breaking to see her go into care after everything we have given up all the year's for her! I have 3 children of my own and my sister works full time long hours so we can't be there constantly its hard

Post from nohouseyet is lovely and full of good advice. Her Mum needs to take a more active role in her life as well.