If there was a war and conscription was mandatory would you go?

[visitingagain]

Do people think the government has the right to conscript people? Should people who won't comply get punished?

@Arethechildreninbedyet
Whats the series and is it good?

@CheeseMmmm

I'm still pretty fucked off by the OP drawing a comparison between conscription here for the world wars esp ww1 which was horrific, and Jabs and face masks which are not even sodding compulsory.

Plus all those around the world now in atrocious situations with civil war/ extremists wanting to take over/ between countries, and more.

Child soldiers, rape, murder, torture. Homes destroyed. Imprisonment with no charge. Bombings. I mean it's horrific.

@CheeseMmmm I think you've misunderstood me completely! I'm more interested in peoples opinions on conscription and the idea of something being mandatory and where their responsibility to society lies. Mainly because so there was so much pp on the Austria and other threads who said they would never comply with vaccines , the state has no right, bodily autonomy etc etc. But interesting to see loads on here who accept that in some way they would contribute to a war situation and basically accept the state can mandate things. Even people who are pacifists would contribute. I don't think it's the same group of posters on this thread!

[quote alienbaby]@Arethechildreninbedyet
Whats the series and is it good?[/quote]
It’s called the defeated and it’s about two different police officers dealing with crimes in the city and they’ve got their own secrets going on. I’ve seen the first two episodes and it’s quite graphic and dark but I really enjoyed them. Going to carry on next weekend when DH is next off.

I expect conscription would include women as well as men if they had it now. But it couldn’t be the entire adult population as some people would have to keep the country going (like the women did in the past). So they’d have to be some sort of system

There were reserved occupations in WW2 where you didn’t have to join up

www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6652019.shtml

@madisonbridges

To be honest, I don't suit green so the army's out. I look good in blue but I get airsick and seasick and I'm claustrophobic. So, on the whole, I'd probably have to come down against conscription.

Iirc, durng ww2 they provided anti nausea pills for that.

@WhatHoMarjorie

Well, what's your opinion? Or are you just gathering them for an article?

Of course the govt doesn't have the moral right, and should never have the legal right, to force people to fight some bullshit war.

But what if it wasn't a bullshit war? What if our own liberty was at stake?

What if the Falklands weren't a few little islands nobody has heard of (as they were at the time Argentina invaded), and they were just off the coast of the U.K. mainland like Anglesey or the IOM, or the Shetlands?
If our armed forces didn't have the manpower to protect somewhere like that, would you just allow them to be taken over?

It's like school PE they'd never pick me because of the limp, possibly the speech defect, definitely for being fat. Then I'd get all the coward/ social ostracism crap that goes with that. Isn't society fun.

The success of WW2 was almost entirely due to the Americans and the Russians. British Troops were withdrawn during the Dunkirk Evacuation and were losing spectacularly until the Americans arrived in 1942.

First sentence is fairly true but I think a few people who know their military history might just raise a eyebrows at the last one…any thoughts on the North Africa campaign where by the end of ‘42, and before US Forces got involved, the German’s were the one’s “losing spectacularly”?.

On the subject of the thread and conscription….all ultimately very abstract..

Given the nature of warfare these days, the equipment and the training needed if “the balloon” goes up it’ll all be too late, and I can’t see any appetite in the UK for conscription just in case.

It’ll never happen again for war. We have enough horrific ways of killing each other at a distance now.

I could quite easily imagine a scenario in which there were mandatory duties / obligations/ restrictions in relation to the climate crisis though.

I actually think a kind of compulsory social “National Service” for all young people at 18, where you spent time working for the benefit of society, rather than toting a high powered assault rifle, so perhaps worked in schools, hospitals or local councils. or worked with older people, on various placements for a year or two for a basic salary, would really be transformative for society, teaching empathy, renewing the social contract, helping people understand the importance of community etc. And it would give people a real sense of national identity.

It’ll never happen though.

It’ll never happen again for war. We have enough horrific ways of killing each other at a distance now.

Depends on the scale….plenty of instances around the world in very recent years of “boots on the ground” being needed even when the nations had ordnance up to and including nuclear weapons….

OTOH if we really are thinking about conscription in the context of a sudden “end of days” scenario it won’t happen….UK Forces would be out ammunition and a lot else well before the first conscript had been issued with his/her boots..

No.

I'd go to prison before I would willingly hurt or kill someone. And even if I wasn't going to he on the front line, I also wouldn't want to be involved in the harming of other people in any way, even in a supportive role.

@notimagain

The success of WW2 was almost entirely due to the Americans and the Russians. British Troops were withdrawn during the Dunkirk Evacuation and were losing spectacularly until the Americans arrived in 1942.

First sentence is fairly true but I think a few people who know their military history might just raise a eyebrows at the last one…any thoughts on the North Africa campaign where by the end of ‘42, and before US Forces got involved, the German’s were the one’s “losing spectacularly”?.

Agree that anyone who knows about military history knows the whole "the yanks won the war" thing is nonsense.

We would never have conscription because that number of people wouldn’t be required in contemporary warfare.

It is interesting though that in the past people would say ‘I am a pacifist I will go as a stretcher bearer’ and now people opting out are all ‘not risking my life, me, me, me.’ It makes me even more grateful for my grandparents and all they did.

It wouldn't be mandatory for the elite or children of the elite, politicians, "important" people etc only the plebs. If they started sending their children to the frontline first to lead by example, then I would consider it, otherwise no.

@montysma1

Nope. Why should I kill other peooles children on the say so of political whim?

"Every bullet has its billet, many bullets more than one. God! Perhaps I killed a mother, when I killed a mother's son."

genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/defb60b837eb4335ab276c2455b884d7

A documentary history of conscientious objectors in Britain, from the passing of the Military Service Act in 1916 to the return home of the last conscript 30 years ago. The testimony of those who took a stand for peace in two world wars reveals the changing nature of resistance to war. Conscientious objectors tell how they feared they'd be shot, how they were cut off from society and how they reconciled resistance with the need to fight evil in a violent world.

Food for thought.

Worth noting that people who wouldn't fight but become nurses etc are still enabling the war effort. So it's not a case they don't believe in war. Just not for them. Which is arguably not really a great mindset.

If it did come to a real war I suspect people who think their caring duties might somehow exempt them could be in for a real shock. After all, this government doesn't give a shit about them as it is. And this is peacetime.

I'm now too old, but would of signed up before conscription if my country needed me.
My husband is currently in his 27th year in HM armed force's.
Military personnel basically write a blank cheque of their lives to protect their country. Where the politicians send them it not always agreeable....

@lonelyapple

It wouldn't be mandatory for the elite or children of the elite, politicians, "important" people etc only the plebs. If they started sending their children to the frontline first to lead by example, then I would consider it, otherwise no.

Prince Harry served operationally in Afghanistan and Prince Andrew in the Falklands conflict.....

[quote BlueFlavour]@CheeseMmmm
Russian soldiers were notorious for rape.[/quote]
We have Austrian family and after the war they were occupied by Russian soldiers for a while. The stories they tell are terrifying
The women between the ages of 10 and 50 were sent to live in the woods to try and keep them safe. They didn’t really talk about it much but DHs Grandma hated men who weren’t clean shaven and if DH hadn’t shaved for a few days when he visited he was told he looked “horrible, like a Russian”
When the English troops arrived to take over the people were so happy to see them

@notimagain

The success of WW2 was almost entirely due to the Americans and the Russians. British Troops were withdrawn during the Dunkirk Evacuation and were losing spectacularly until the Americans arrived in 1942.

First sentence is fairly true but I think a few people who know their military history might just raise a eyebrows at the last one…any thoughts on the North Africa campaign where by the end of ‘42, and before US Forces got involved, the German’s were the one’s “losing spectacularly”?.

It's an unpleasant truth, but really the UKs biggest role in WW2 was to hold the Axis powers until the US ramped up. Which was well known at the time.

By engaging with the Nazis all over the place, plus some targeted operations the UK slowed German nuclear research enough to give the allies the edge. Plus handing over all our research to the US for free.

That's what history looks like at this distance leastways.

Also this whole "plucky little nation" crock of shit we have been spoon fed. WW2 was the Germans taking on the British Empire FFS. If you want to carry on pissing off every other country in the commonwealth, just carry on telling yourselves that ...

War. Is. Hell.

Some countries that still have conscription have a non-military alternative - Israel’s Sherut Leumi isn’t open to everyone. IDF members who refuse to serve in the West Bank &/or Gaza are sometimes assigned to serve elsewhere, but sometimes end up in prison terms for a few months to a year - and might then get a dishonourable discharge on their release. In Austria, military service is for 6 months; civilian service (things like working in hospitals, care work & youth work) lasts 9 months; or you can choose to do 12 months in Austrian Holocaust Memorial Service, theAustrian Social Serviceor theAustrian Peace Service. Denmark’s non-military service includes doing aid work abroad & dealing with things like floods & fires.

Even now the overwhelming majority of countries with conscription only call up men. For any K-Pop STANS; am sure you’ll be delighted to learn that K-Pop idols are now allowed to defer their service until the age of 30: the rest of South Korea’s male population will have (unless exempted due to disability) had to serve for 2 years between the ages of 18 and 28.

Frankly I’d be feck-all use at any of it thanks to my ridiculous body. Occasionally providing translations that aren’t time-sensitive as long as I can work from home? Going to play with the cats of people off Doing Useful Things? Mmmph.

With thread having taken a bit of a segue into WWI, would just like to remind you that the British Army continue to Not Mention the teenagers in the regular army they shipped across the Channel to face unimaginable horrors. My maternal grandfather (he was quite a lot older than my granny, who had children late) joined up as a 14 year old in 1912. He was barely 16 when he found himself hauling a field gun around the battlefields of France. He - & all his brothers - joined the army because they were army brats: & worse than that for the job market, Irish Catholic ones at that. The army was stability & security & not going hungry… the British Army was full of boys like him, and they’re airbrushed out. The ongoing pretence that any & all under-18’s present had tricked their way past recruiting officers is absolutely infuriating…

During the second world war women with children under 14 were exempt and the age group for female conscription was something like 19 - 30. So most mumsnetters would probably wouldn't be called up tbh.

I don't approve of conscription but I think everyone has a moral duty to protect everyone else in society.

My DGF never met his own father, as he'd died of war wounds before my DGF was born. It didn't stop my DGF signing up to work in the Auxiliary Fire Service (he wasn't evacuated from London, too old maybe) before signing up for the army when was old enough.

BTW it was perfectly obvious, from your very first post, that this thread was about vaccination and not war. Would it be better if no-one got the vaccine, & we just allowed nature to take its course? We got lucky with this virus, so far - the mortality rate is relatively low. What you mean is that you don't want to be "conscripted" so you're relying on enough other people to volunteer to protect you.

It's an unpleasant truth, but really the UKs biggest role in WW2 was to hold the Axis powers until the US ramped up. Which was well known at the time.

Wouldn’t disagree with that as a basic overview, I do however sense there’s a danger that Britain’s/the Commonwealth’s/Free French, Poles contribution is increasingly being understated..

My late Uncle who served in the 8th Army right through the North Africa campaign and later in Italy would be spinning in his grave at the idea that in late 42 they were “losing spectacularly”….At that point in his war, post El Alamein, they were chasing “Rommel’s lot” westwards towards Tunisia…..

@DismantledKing

The government would award all the conscription contracts to all their mates, so the Russians would be marching up Whitehall before the notices went out (and privatised Royal Mail would take a fortnight to deliver them anyway)

True!