If there was a war and conscription was mandatory would you go?

[visitingagain]

Do people think the government has the right to conscript people? Should people who won't comply get punished?

I’d be too old (thank goodness).

I wouldn’t go

I’d rather be imprisoned or whatever the consequences were

@DroopyClematis

If conscription was mandatory then there'd be no choice, surely ?

Contentious objector maybe?

Tbh, if things were so bad that war was a real possibility on our own shores, I would be dead in my bed by the morning.

I’m too old but I always joke (sort of) with DH that if either of my 2 were called up I would break one of their knees to keep them safe

@TheLightSideOfTheMoon

Ooooo, no.

I’d go and hide in a Forrest. Would probably be the making of me.

I’d be shit in a war.

So would I. If I was captured I'd tell the enemy anything they wanted to know!

Nope. Why should I kill other peooles children on the say so of political whim?

Yes, I'd be too old too but you said 'mandatory' so anyone who refused would need a medical exemption or a 'reserved occupation' certificate.

A bit of a moot point really.

I suspect that squillions of folk would play the 'key worker' card but in time of a declared war, the government's decision would be final.

There are loads of useful roles it's not all front line and esp these days.

I mean ww2 even bletchworth comes to mind as maybe the most famous, the code breakers.

Aside from that loads of women were involved in the war effort either directly or indirectly in a massive range of roles.

When it comes to ww2 and women and conscription

'
In December 1941 Parliament passed a second National Service Act. It widened the scope of conscription still further by making all unmarried women and all childless widows between the ages of 20 and 30 liable to call-up. '

Conscription in the UK has never called up anyone over 51, so it’s be the Home Guard for me (by the skin of my teeth). I’ll be trained to throw Molotov cocktails at drones 20,000 feet up.

Lots of conscientious objectors were drafted into the mines as 'Bevan Boys.' Not much choice - conscription into unpleasant non-com jobs or jail.
Women were conscripted into stuff like munitions or vital factory work, bus drivers and other jobs where the conscription of men had left a vacuum.

Don't assume people who joined up were reluctant. My pa was eighteen and screaming with boredom in an insurance office. He joined the navy immediately on the outbreak of war and saw it as an escape, adventure.

The question for me would be how would I feel if my sons (or daughters now) were called up? I knew a few over here dodging the Vietnam draft. What if you had an 18 year old son drafted, say, to the Vietnam war as a 2nd lieutenant. The attrition rate for 2nd lieutenants was appalling. How could you have coped? Can't imagine much worse.

Depends what was at stake. If losing might mean death/misery for DS I'd go, I'd do anything for him.

That said, I don't trust the government to know what's right, so I'd be making my own assessment and acting accordingly.

No I would not and neither would any of my children.

You cannot compare the UK to the situation in either WW1 or WW2. The UK is in a completely different place. Whilst there is still some 'coming together' I'm afraid I feel that the UK is very fragmented and has lost the sense of society. Individuals/groups just out for themselves, the pandemic has shown this.

I'm only very vaguely British tbh. But yes, if it was mandatory, I'd do it.

Yes, I would if necessary. (I'm well past the age where I might be any use, though, except in training troops!)
However, in the event of a war / invasion / zombie apocalypse, I have the means to defend myself and my family and would do so.

To be honest, if Boris declared war on Misroviasteinica tomorrow then I'd start digging my own grave and eat my weight in pies to hurry my descent into it.

That being said, he'd probably send a couple of Spitfires while Misroviasteinica deployed robotic lithium-infused gelignite/Serin infused drones to wipe us out.

@DroopyClematis

Yes, I'd be too old too but you said 'mandatory' so anyone who refused would need a medical exemption or a 'reserved occupation' certificate.

A bit of a moot point really.

I suspect that squillions of folk would play the 'key worker' card but in time of a declared war, the government's decision would be final.

Ww2 had tribunals for conscientious objectors.

'Conscientious objectors had to appear before a tribunal to argue their reasons for refusing to join-up. If their cases were not dismissed, they were granted one of several categories of exemption, and were given non-combatant jobs.'

DP is in a sector that was hit hard by covid. He worked all through out and about. No interest here in sending kids to school (I was wfh and mine are late primary/ secondary). No idea what any other things were not interested tbh.

In the first few months be had 4 colleagues die. Yes it's a big employer in London. These were men he had all worked with for some time ie he knew them, not just numbers. I'm not sure how many died across that employer.

So your petty point is well. Petty. Those 4 men had families lives etc.

I don't know anyone who died of it and I think those in that situation often are (understandably really) just not aware of the situation in circs other than their own.

Four people he had /was working with and was matey with.

So yeah whatever.

@mineofuselessinformation

Yes, I would if necessary. (I'm well past the age where I might be any use, though, except in training troops!) However, in the event of a war / invasion / zombie apocalypse, I have the means to defend myself and my family and would do so.

Ooh how? That's awesome!

If we were invaded and soldiers everywhere going from house to house etc what do you have?

I think I'd be a good sniper based on a work awayday activity but... That was air guns! Not got a real gun and never shot one!

@WhatHoMarjorie

WW2 was an inevitable war. What was the alternative?

Because WWI made it inevitable...

Regardless. What was the alternative? Sometimes war is the only response.

No, I'd go to prison as a conscientious objector. I'm not killing anybody on the orders of a government I didn't vote for and don't believe in.

Sorry to mention again but the paddy ashdown book is all about how opportunities to try to stop Hitler were provided at great personal cost by a network across German military, his personal staff and others... And was ignored. By us. As still hoping to settle politically.

In all these things there's much more that went on than most people (definitely including me!) know.

I'm still pretty fucked off by the OP drawing a comparison between conscription here for the world wars esp ww1 which was horrific, and Jabs and face masks which are not even sodding compulsory.

Plus all those around the world now in atrocious situations with civil war/ extremists wanting to take over/ between countries, and more.

Child soldiers, rape, murder, torture. Homes destroyed. Imprisonment with no charge. Bombings. I mean it's horrific.

I think you actually mean enlisting rather than conscription op but...

No and no

And I come from a military family!

But they all joined voluntarily. I looked into doing so but was medically precluded even then and that was before I became disabled!

But I can still work a computer so with the right training I'd be happy and able to work in a tech/comms role for a war with acceptable motivation, I've worked for mod in similar roles some time ago so I think I could be retrained ok.

This govt in particular though and Blair's? Hell no!

For protecting the country from oppression all well and good, for protecting billionaires interests overseas?! Fuck that!

I expect conscription would include women as well as men if they had it now.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing
Conscription applied to women too in wwii

I think national SERVICE in the public sector isn't necessarily a bad thing, if done well. Not necessarily military which requires certain skills and aptitudes (contrary what some may think) but any form of public service that suits the person going into it from post offices to street cleaning to care work to local govt admin BUT it should be paid and provide good training and not be free/cheap labour. Too often now public service roles (as many other employers) are demanding ridiculous entry requirements for fairly easy to learn roles (if the person has an aptitude for them) ime it means we have people entering roles they aren't suited to because they have more academic ability and were able to get work experience while people who WOULD be good at these roles but aren't academic and are disadvantaged re work experience are being prevented from entering them

There'll never be another 'world war'

Myself and others would argue there's a ww going on right now!

It's just a lot more subtle and generally more tech based and more intelligence based than previous ww, and has been the case since 9/11, more like the Cold War which was also a ww really just not acknowledged as such so we're in...ww4?

It'll just be whoever releases their nuclear missiles first.

Even nuclear tech is MASSIVELY outdated!

It's no longer the "nuclear option" actually

Far more likely to be genetically engineered bio weapons or tech attacks like viruses designed to fuck our infrastructure or banking!

It might have mattered to the Jewish posters on here. Who wouldn't be here if Hitler had won and/or invaded Britain.

On that perspective not only Jewish but basically any non Christian religions, the disabled, homosexuals, the mentally ill... the list goes on and on

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba we already have the reserve forces. People who are trained but serve part time but would be the first to be called up (as they're already trained) if conscription were to return. Some are retired full time forces personnel some are civilians otherwise. Also retired forces personnel dependent on age and physical condition can be recalled to military service within x years of retirement (it keeps changing the exact time scale and is dependent on a variety of factors) and not just for war purposes but for other national emergencies too. Iirc they were considering doing so for extra personnel for managing COVID particularly the vaccination programme but I think it didn't go ahead eventually

@PicsInRed military personnel operate military drones though. The nature of what kind of soldiers we need has changed. In the past we needed brawn now it's more brains

@StrongerOrWeaker yes who is conscripted and how they're assigned has been seen to be highly classist and racist in the past and I have no reason to think this would be any better now.

@BeyondMyWits I've not seen Enders game thinking I should

@CheeseMmmm I think it's less that the level of destruction of nuclear weapons that's the issue more that it's also self destructive to use them as they impact thousands of miles from blast radius and impossible to truly predict the impact long term even now so not seen as a sensible option.

Whereas a bio weapon that is engineered to wipe out everyone without eg green eyes can be fairly predictable and designed to not be harmful to the majority of the aggressor who HAS green eyes or the genes for them.

I have a theory that COVID was developed originally as a potential bio weapon but somebody cocked up and it leaked into the world.

Technical warfare can be even more precise, drones or attacking the enemy's infrastructure (eg poisoning the water for all of Thames area via a computer virus in the water treatment system)

Various methods are considered, developed even tested.

I think it's fairly widely known that not all Germans supported Hitler and that there were various plans put in place that either failed or weren't attempted to

A prevent his rise to power initially

Or

B limit the damage he did once in power

No. I would rather go to prison than to be put in a position where I might have to kill someone.

South Korean society expects all Korean men to serve even the who could get medical / social / citizenship exemptions. But that doesn’t mean active duty - disabled soldiers are often given desk jobs.

Would 'new' warfare be cyber / bio? Say EMPs to wipe out all technology - freeze the economy. Bio - novichok, smallpox, SARS, sarin etc? Target the most people with the least 'effort' rather than traditional combat?