....to think my daughter's class has a right to a qualified teacher?

[pokemeinthemorning]

So we had a message tonight on the system to explain what is happening in my daughter's year 5 class. Apparently, their teacher will now be teaching another class because one teacher left two weeks ago and they have said they have 'dispensed of any supply staff'. Basically the TA will be teaching the class for the foreseeable future.
I know there are many dedicated and wonderful TA's who could make great teachers BUT we are not qualified to teach classes on a regular basis.
On questioning my daughter I found out that from the start of this year she has her teacher in class 2 days a week and the rest is taken on by the TA. We were not told about this.
As a TA myself, I know that they often cover classes but this is on a regular basis for a prolonged period of time.

I feel that this is very unfair and they should at least be employing supply teachers in the meantime.

@Endoftether2000 re TA's pay, I was paid minimum rate (around £8.50 an hr) for mornings as whole class TA. Then slightly higher in the afternoon for 1-1, (around 8.75 I think?). That was around 10 years ago in Cornwall but it hasn't changed much. I covered for my teachers PPA one afternoon a week and in exceptional circumstances due to staff shortages and was paid the lower whole class rate whilst doing so.

Whilst I didn't have to plan I did mark according to schemes already in place and provide feedback. I was never paid a penny beyond my hours finishing after 3:15 p.m even when regularly required to stay later for numerous reasons. In fact one Head wanted to NOT pay me for the 15 minutes between my closing Breakfast Club and returning to class despite it being physically impossible to do this any quicker as I covered breakfast club alone and had to fold those bloody great dinner tables up and put them away, mop floor etc. I had to plan, deliver and record activities for small group literacy and numeracy interventions and did so, as did we all, but was never given any paid time nor any space to do so and usually had to sit in a busy corridor with my group.
@Abraxan is entirely correct in all details.

[quote Wilkolampshade]@Endoftether2000 re TA's pay, I was paid minimum rate (around £8.50 an hr) for mornings as whole class TA. Then slightly higher in the afternoon for 1-1, (around 8.75 I think?). That was around 10 years ago in Cornwall but it hasn't changed much. I covered for my teachers PPA one afternoon a week and in exceptional circumstances due to staff shortages and was paid the lower whole class rate whilst doing so.

Whilst I didn't have to plan I did mark according to schemes already in place and provide feedback. I was never paid a penny beyond my hours finishing after 3:15 p.m even when regularly required to stay later for numerous reasons. In fact one Head wanted to NOT pay me for the 15 minutes between my closing Breakfast Club and returning to class despite it being physically impossible to do this any quicker as I covered breakfast club alone and had to fold those bloody great dinner tables up and put them away, mop floor etc. I had to plan, deliver and record activities for small group literacy and numeracy interventions and did so, as did we all, but was never given any paid time nor any space to do so and usually had to sit in a busy corridor with my group.
@Abraxan is entirely correct in all details.[/quote]
I was working in an Academy chain like that: they've whacked their fulltime TAs' hours down to 25 hours per week, 3 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon, but still magically expecting work to get done/prepared/covered in the half hour before school starts, during the 'lunch unpaid' hour when classes are still in session when they go off the clock, and at the end of the day when school is still going and they're off the clock.

One of the reasons I left.

Complete abuse of low paid TAs' desire to be there for the children when too much is already expected of them.

If men filled these roles in great numbers, it wouldn't be happening. Much like Teachers, Nurses, Carers, etc are treated like their public service jobs are 'callings' because theyre women primarily, while male-dominated MPs demand more pay for their own public service jobs.

Why on earth are teaching assistants putting up with this? Why dont they refuse to take lessons when they're not qualified to do so., Or paid a teacher's salary. If more refused, the greedy unscrupulous schools would be stuffed.

I do similar at the moment. Work as a ta in the morning for 9.86 or similar, then an HLTA taking classes in the afternoon for 11 something. For a few months I was solely responsible for a class, which I wouldn't do again for 11 something. Even now I often turn up to classes to find no planning etc...as a parent this doesn't please me.

Oh yes, and my hours don't cover getting everything sorted for intervention classes in the morning, dealing with whatever at lunchtime or after school.

@Drumshambo

Why on earth are teaching assistants putting up with this? Why dont they refuse to take lessons when they're not qualified to do so., Or paid a teacher's salary. If more refused, the greedy unscrupulous schools would be stuffed.

Maybe because they’ve already shouted. By when teachers or TS go on strike, they are the vilains.

If PARENTS were starting to refuse that sort of things, just like the OP is, maybe it would change.
I’d even go as far as saying, maybe if FATHERS were to start to grumble loud as clear, it would change.

Doesn't surprise me that teachers are scarce these days. Shit pay, treated shittily during covid, overworked, unappreciated. Who would want that job.

@StormyTeacups

Oh yes, and my hours don't cover getting everything sorted for intervention classes in the morning, dealing with whatever at lunchtime or after school.

Treated as teachers without the pay for it; grossly unfair. Which is why I no longer 'volunteer' my time. I arrive on the dot and leave on the dot. If it can't get done during school hours, I'm not longer willing to put my hand up.

So many TA jobs advertised locally, more than I have ever seen. So many readvertised as they couldn't appoint. TA jobs, once upon a time, couldn't be found.

Certainly not a job people want to do anymore.

@Drumshambo I can't speak for anyone else but I personally put up with it because I loved working with the children and as my DH worked away badly needed employment which fitted around school hours and there was bugger all locally that would do that. Conditions did get progressively worse though, ultimately quite shockingly bad and I left in the end after a really awful safeguarding case I was involved with absolutely broke my heart. Still miss the work and the children though (and can recite a worrying number of Biff and Chip books from memory).
I should have considered proper teacher training and was told by a Head that she would recommend me but lacked the confidence for it then.
I wholeheartedly agree with PP that if this were a male domain things would be VERY different.

We were recruiting for 2 1:1 TAs, ( the only ones we can recruit for as class TAs are not being replaced when they leave, we can't afford them) . We had THREE applicants, none of whom had ever set foot in a school since leaving school themselves but thought it would be nice working with children, one trained dogs and thought it might be similar! TAs used to wash paint pots and stick sheets in books, now they run intervention and booster groups and yes, cover teacher absences but they are also a dying breed!

Oh dear, this thread made me look up TA vacancies in local schools and think about my old job.... Despite everything I've said, the pictures of kids and classrooms made me so sad! And now I really want to apply again... Must resist!

@Philandbill What do you suggest teachers do other than vote with their feet and leave education?

I suggest teachers do what exploited labour force has always done - unite and strike.

While parents and teachers pull back from this the employers take advantage (and aren't they just and have taken for years).

Teachers need to start a campaign to tell parents they are going to strike for the sake of their children's education. Then do it. Go on strike until hours, wages and conditions are addressed properly. Permanent and total strike until it's sorted once and for all.

It would definitely work. And then the govt would know that they couldn't fuck around with schools and teachers anymore.

Teachers need to start a campaign to tell parents they are going to strike for the sake of their children's education.

We did. It was the 'Standing up for Standards' strike. Unfortunately teachers aren't actually allowed to strike for the sake of children's education, only about their pay and conditions, so technically the strike was about teacher pensions.

We got absolutely slated. In the press and on MN. It has made teachers very wary about national strikes as they don't actually improve anything and just invite a whole heap of abuse.

@madroid
Teachers? On strike? Have you seen the uproar each time they’ve threatened to do that? Parents angered because dcs wouldn’t go to school, they are so privileged anyway etc…,

What about parents making a fuss instead of banging on that TA are better anyway?

Having left a highly paid career to be at home with young family, I volunteered at my children’s schools for some years. A year ago I decided to get some formal experience, with a view to doing a PGCE. Am currently employed as a Higher level TA, and my responsibilities cover everything from teaching full classes 2/3 days per week, to specific interventions & SEN support. We are also expected to run after school clubs and the school have not brought back any MDS staff since lockdown ended, so we are expected to provide that too! On top of all this, I am also first aider. We are lucky to get a break some days. I have to plan my own lessons, mark and upload data…as well as managing classroom resources and displays. Most days I work 9 to 10 hours, which works out a measly £6 / £7 per hour some weeks! It’s simply astonishing how much the TA role is being abused in schools. While I am well educated and have a lot to offer the school in terms of what I provide - a lot of TA agency staff, are really scratching the bottom of an ‘only job I can find’ barrel..and it sadly really shows. I would certainly not be happy, if they were my child’s only teacher for weeks on end.

Teachers need to start a campaign to tell parents they are going to strike for the sake of their children's education. Then do it. Go on strike until hours, wages and conditions are addressed properly. Permanent and total strike until it's sorted once and for all.

It would definitely work. And then the govt would know that they couldn't fuck around with schools and teachers anymore.

What planet are you on @madroid? Do you have any recollection of the times over the last decade or two when teachers have gone on strike? We had NO public support whatsoever. None. It's absolutely pointless and the govt doesn't shift an inch. I fact they use it to slate and punish us even more.

It would definitely work

Seriously, that's laughable. You don't have a clue.

I've worked with many TAs that can deliver a lesson far better than some teachers. A qualification does not guarantee you child will learn better. As long as planning is being set by the teacher they should be no problem at all. The school will have every faith in that TA or they wouldn't do it .

Some schools have made TAs redundant and teachers are wholly responsible for meeting the needs of SEND students. Fucking shocking state of affairs.

[quote madroid]**@Philandbill* What do you suggest teachers do other than vote with their feet and leave education?*

I suggest teachers do what exploited labour force has always done - unite and strike.

While parents and teachers pull back from this the employers take advantage (and aren't they just and have taken for years).

Teachers need to start a campaign to tell parents they are going to strike for the sake of their children's education. Then do it. Go on strike until hours, wages and conditions are addressed properly. Permanent and total strike until it's sorted once and for all.

It would definitely work. And then the govt would know that they couldn't fuck around with schools and teachers anymore.[/quote]
Teachers going on strike has never been favourably received by the public. they don't care about teachers' pay and conditions; they only care that strikes interferes with parents' jobs when their children can't go to school and their children's education (though so many don't support teachers when their children don't behave in school, I highly doubt that these days).

And to strike now, after so many weeks/months of missed school due to covid, and continuing weeks off due to covid here and there, there is ZERO chance that the public would support teachers going on strike now.

Didn't realise state schools could now have unqualified teachers I/c of classes. What a dire situation we are in. I would be writing to the head, the chair of governors, the chair of the LEA education committee. You may get platitudes back but you'll have registered your unhappiness unhappiness. I'd also contact the local teachers' trade union to seek their views. Then I'd write to the local paper, make it uncomfortable for this school to continue doing a disservice to the children.

@Murdoch1949

Didn't realise state schools could now have unqualified teachers I/c of classes. What a dire situation we are in. I would be writing to the head, the chair of governors, the chair of the LEA education committee. You may get platitudes back but you'll have registered your unhappiness unhappiness. I'd also contact the local teachers' trade union to seek their views. Then I'd write to the local paper, make it uncomfortable for this school to continue doing a disservice to the children.

All of those people know it’s a shit situation already but there is no money and no supply.

You’d be best off writing to your MP.

It's quite nuanced this, though.
I work in a school, emoyed as support staff (pastoral role) I'm not a qualified teacher, in that I didn't complete a pgce year. Over the 18 years I've worked in schools, I've formally taught for 10 of them as I am a subject specialist - way more knowledgeable in my area than most of the teachers.
I currently teach 6 periods a week and I am a form tutor. I'm "unqualified" and don't earn what teachers earn but I am hugely experienced and have a post grad and a doctorate in my field of expertise.

A parent discovered I was "unqualified" and wrote to the governors about it, despite my class's results over the last several years. School had to do some placating for sure.
However I still teach, I save the school money and though they've offered to send me on a pgce, I don't want to, as then I will be seconded as a proper teacher and have to give up the bits of my job I love.
It's not always a good/bad issue. Some TAs are way better than some teachers.

@toomanypillows - yes completely agree.
Having QTS, does not necessarily mean you are a great teacher, nor does it mean you are expert in your field!
Particularly with primary. At my large primary, I am the only member of staff who has maths beyond A level, most only have it to GCSE, including the subject lead! And I’m the only member of staff in my phase, who can teach or speak any semblance of french. Many teachers are young newly qualified, or doing placement years. Sometimes their subject knowledge falls way short of what I would expect. Some of the better ‘teachers’ I’ve seen, are those who have had previous careers and interesting life experiences. I travelled extensively with my previous career, and the children love asking questions about some of the countries I have visited. One teacher I helped cover for, was asked by a child during one lesson, where Burma was, but couldn’t answer….and she was subject lead for Humanities!

@nohouseyet

It makes my blood boil to think of qualified teachers sitting in offices raking in huge salaries in education management while the goods aren’t being delivered on the shop floor. Grr!

HA! HA! HA! HA! if you think this is the case, you live in cloud cuckoo land! At the moment, with absences, we have on average 11 members of staff missing per week. One member of our teaching staff died before half term. We are a big primary school, 30 classes and over 130 members of staff but every possible spare person is being used. We have a maternity leave coming up and have advertised the job 3 times but applicants are thin on the ground or very poor quality. It takes everything that the head teacher and I have to keep the school running. Both of us would love to teach but there aren't enough hours in the day. I find your comment incredibly ignorant but probably shouldn't surprised. (And if you think that 'rake in a huge salary' you are sadly mistaken.

In reference to the OP, you will probably find that the school have made the difficult decision to keep the good TA with the class (who has a proven track record of being able to give the children a good standard of education) rather than appoint a less than satisfactory teacher. It's incredibly difficult to get good candidates at this time of the year.