to still be upset after he's apologised...

[pinktinselanddollymixtures]

I love my husband to bits. But every now and again he really winds me up. He is the youth deacon at our church and I support him 100% in this. But and here is the but, every few months I have to have a conversatiopn with him about how is doing so much with the youth that he totally neglecting his family.
We have 3 children and surely he should be giving the best of his time to them.

Well, anyway he's done it again and this time i'm really upset. Namely because it's christmas and he missing out on important family time because he is taking the youth group out.

Last week he missed out on a christmas trail with the girls because he took the YG to a gig. The day after the gig we were supossed to be going christmas shopping but 3 of the youth boys stayed over and didn't leave till 12. He was supposed to be somewhere else at 2 so that didn't give us a lot of time.

This saturday he has arranged (without consulting me) to take the youth group up to cheltnam for the weekend. Not only is this valuable shopping time. But it is also our carols by candelight service at he church. Which we go to every year as a family, well not this year it seems.

So he has said sorry. He has told me that he had some reflection and realised he is in the wrong. But I am upset because I dont need any reflection to know I have to put my children first. I am their mum and it comes naturally, why is it so hard for him?. He tells me he loves us and we are his main priority but his actions completly go against that. I'm fed up of going over the same ground every few months and I am more upset because it's christmas and I am having to sort out all the shopping on my own (and i dont drive).

He never ever takes me out anyway unless somebody else tells him to. Yet he is always out with the youth group.

I dont go anywhere or have anytime off from the girls. I home school them (which I love) so am with them constantly. But he is always so busy that there is never anytime for me to go out.

The worst this about it all is that I am a christian, I know I should be able to just forgive him and move on, so why am I finding it so difficult?

Sorry for the long post.

I don't think you're being unreasonable, but..

at least your dh is doing some good, rather than spending all his time at the pub.

couldn't you and the girls go out with the youth group so you still still spend a bit more time together and he could still do his bit at the ame time iykwim

i do not think you are being unreasonable, maybe you should show him your post and explain in very clear terms that his behaviour is really upsetting you and your kids and that they would really like to spend more time with their dad?

i think you are finding it hard to forgivce him because you have raised this issue before and it has not been resolved and just got worse, maybe say to him that he can only do so many youth group things a month and that he must give equal time to yourself and your family??

i hope you get this sorted out an feel better before xmas x

Thanx for your replies. The trouble is my girls are still quite young 5/4/1. We have never been included with his YG stuff, although I have held things at our house for the group so that I can be included. Everytime he arranges something with the group his car is always full of kids so there is no hope of us going with him.

I know he is doing good and he does a fantastic job with the youth, he has a brilliant relationship with them and has seen lots of good things happen because of this but...and I feel really selfish here...I dont want his youth group to be a success at the cost to our own family.

Like I said I always put the girls number one, I just wish I didn't have to remind him so often that he is actually a dad.

I dont think you are being unreasonable. Whilst what he is doing is extremely important and valuable work so too is being a father and role model to his children. One should not be at the expense of the other. Maybe you could sit down together and schedule family times that can not be broken or the other way around; schedule youth group dates that are not so time consuming and all other times are for the families. hth

BTW it is very hard to forgive someone who's actions are not showing they are sorry.

Do you have a 'family' calendar?

You can't fogive him, is this because he has acted in the same way previously and told you he was sorry - now he has just reinacted the same sinario and expects to say sorry and you forgive him? Once to say sorry is fine twice to say sorry for the same is pushing it but any more than that there is a problem and how can you keep forgiving?

staryeyed,

He has said that he has committed himself to stuff with the YG at the moment and cant break those (I wouldn't want him to do that anyway). He has also said that he will make family time for us after things quieten down a bit.

From past experiences I know that he will be true to his word and will make family time for us, for a bit and then he will forget and we will have to have this out again.

I just do not like having to remind him of his responsibilities towards the girls. Surely they should come first and his YG second. Nobody ever has to remind him to look after there interests. It's almost like I feel that we get in the way from what he really wants to do. Which is why we have to snatch time from him. I want more then that for the girls.

Sorry only works if it means that things change . I can see he is doing something worthwhile with his time but IMO spending valuable time with his family is also worthwhile.

Could someone else not take over his duties occasionally? Anyone can take the role of youth deacon from time to time, no-one else can be your DH and your DC's father.

Your husband sounds like a decent, caring and reasonable man. Therefore, he will surely listen when you call for help and support. As someone else said, it's not like he's off down the pub or chasing other women. It sounds like he's just getting carried away with his work. A gentle, or not-so-gentle prod, repeated at regular intervals, ought to do it. Maybe you've been too accommodating so far.....?

Anyway...I meant to say you are not being unreasonable

Ok well after these commitments how about planning then. I know what you mean thou its not nice to have to feel you are "stealing him away" he should come willingly iykwim. I have been through similar issues. Can you not get a third party involved to make him more accountable for his actions towards your family?

Haylstones- We do have a calender and as I pointed out to him yesterday the only thing he had wrote on there for two weeks regarding family was to accompany me and dd2 to a hospital appointed. Everything else was YG stuff, or meetings regarding the youth. He was a bit ashamed when I showed him that.

Ivykaty44- Yes I think that plays a big part in it. But also more so because it is christmas, which is such an important family time for us. And it's not only about christmas day, its all the preparation before hand. All the excitement for the girls running up to it, with parties, carol services etc. And he has made himself so busy that he is missing out on a huge part of that.

I think you've been WAY too accommodating. Does dh realise what he's jeopardising? If you spell out to him that his actions are causing you to drift in different directions (where you have different interests/demands on time etc) and that way usually means a split-up, perhaps he will understand more what you are saying? Men do need these things spelled out in words of 1 syllable! Tell him 'you are making a new life for yourself, one whihc doesn't include me and dds, and 'this' is going to be a consequence of your actions.'
get tough. It's your marriage at stake.

I think the fact that it is 'worthwhile' is a red herring. The fact is that he is seriously neglecting his family for his job, and no matter how good the cause, his family should come first at least some of the time. He is actually expecting you and the children to make sacrifices so he can go out and do his good deeds and that is not fair IMHO.

Have you pointed out to him that many teenagers have problems because a lack of parental involvement in their lives and yet he is doing exactly the same thing to his own children?

My dad was a vicar when I was little and he really missed out on things because he was so busy looking after everyone else. IME it is not uncommon for the children of clergy to feel quite resentful of the lack of time they spend with their parent because they are busy elsewhere.

PS Have you read the sacred diary of Adrian Plass? Your posts remind me very strongly of a situation in the book where he is so busy looking after the rest of the community that he neglects his own family. In the end his wife phones him and tells him about a family who've been deserted by their father and would he go and see them? When he gets to the meeting place his own family are there waiting for him....

I'd be really annoyed as well. As I say to my DS1 sometimes 'sorry doesn't cut it...stop doing it'. Difficult to change peoples motivations though. (SWEEPING GENERALISATION ALERT!) I think men struggle to compromise their own personal work/interests and it's because often their priorities are all wrong. DP won't even run to put the kettle on if he's watching a favourite TV show.

YANBU btw. I have a similar situation with my dh and make sure I write EVERYTHING on our calendar e.g bday parties, swimming lessons, day trips. Means that he (ideally) is less likely to commit himself to other things on these dates without speaking to me first. Even writing 'family only day# might help?
Sorry, is tricky situation and I don't really have any concrete advice

I can quite understand you being upset. After all he has apologised but not resolved the situation or made any immediate changes.

As an active member of the church myself, I would seek to speak to somebody else within the pastoral care section, to see if anybody could be identified to support him with the group.

At the end of the day you are (kind of) a fragmented family unit at the moment, and I know for myself in the same situation I would be seeking support and guidance from within my church regardless of who his 'employer/place of work' was.

Another point worth raising is that your own children could well end up feeling rejected by him if he spends more time with other people's children, than he does his own

Maybe he needs to define some clear boundaries about how much time it is reasonable for him to devote to his youth work. I am involved in church children's work (as a volunteer) and I so know how it can escalate out of control. Because everything you want to do is "good" and "worthwhile", so it's easy to justify saying yes to everything that comes along. I have soooooooo many ideas about great things I'd like to do with the youngsters at church, but I'm working very hard on prioritising the things that are really important for now, and trying to trust God that the right time will come along to do the other ones.

Does he have a defined number of hours that he is meant to work? Is he sticking to it, more or less? Do you need a regular, family diary-making session each week? Including programming in specific times for you to do things together (even if it is only playing at home!).

Someone else has mentioned Adrian Plass's "neglected family". I think that section of his Diary is absolutely spot on for anyone that does "good work".

As far as forgiveness is concerned, yes, you need to work towards forgiving - because that is at the core of our faith. But it is a process, it is hard work and in practise it will help a lot if you work on it together. But you know that.

Wishing you all the best. It's a manic time of year.

i think men need to be reminded more than women to make time for their families, with us it's programmed in, with them, not so much. that's no excuse, though, but i know i have similar conversations with DH when he's fiddling with his toy car/gardening/on the computer etc.

have to say there's probably not much incentive for him to make time to go xmas shopping with you, i'd leave that one and shop online. men, young kids and xmas shopping don't mix. concentrate on the other stuff that you will all enjoy.

love what he's doing with the kids, though, sounds like it just all needs a little reblancing and discussion with you when he plans things

Daisymoo- Thank you for sharing your personal experience it really helps.Haven't read the book, but sounds like a plan, might have to consider that one in the future if we end up back here again.

Those of you who have suggested talking to the pastoral team, vicar etc. I know that would seem like the first place to go. But I feel a little uncomfortable with it. Firstly because before he got the job as deacon members of the church asked me if I thought dh could cope with the responsibilities of deacon as well as his young family. which I told them that he could. But also because it feels kind of sneaky and wrong, I dont know why. I know thats why the pastoral team are there, but i'm not sure it's right to talk to them in this situation.

I have to do something tho coz everything he does is rubbing me up the wrong way at the mo. He is trying to be all huggy and affectionate, and I am so upset with him that I just dont want to know. I think he is trying to make it up to me this way, but I believe Kama is right. That I will only feel better about things in time when the routine is better.

I have told him that it's not gonna get better overnight, but he is not keen on the stmosphere between us. Obviously I make sure that I dont say anything in front of the girls. But I am finding it hard to be the doting wife around him at he moment.

Having re-read your original post, the thing that stands out for me is "3 of the youth boys stayed over and didn't leave till 12". Was it planned that they stayed overnight? Were you happy about that? Does he know how to say "OK lads, it's time for you to get going now"? On a practical level, is this something he might need to work on?

From what I remember of being a youth group member, we would have happily stayed in our leaders' company 24/7. But sometimes it was healthier for us to be turfed out (politely) and sent home!!!

(I must admit, I am also mildly surprised that he is allowed to have young people staying the night anyway - in these days of stringent safeguarding guidelines and all the rest).