To ask if you have done a PhD?

[ClaraBean]

And if you have, how old were you when you started it?
I'm 42, and really feeling the urge to go back to uni and do my PhD. I'm obsessed with the idea. Will I be an old crone? Is it the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

My DP is just finishing one. He is mid twenties but there is a real mix of people in his department. A lot of people who have worked in the industry for many years and then come back to do a PhD and lots of international students of varying ages as well.
My relative also did a PhD a few years ago for fun after retiring!

@Ryannah

Treat it as a hobby. It makes you virtually unemployable unless you’re lucky enough to get a lecturing job at university. In the past DH has been told by employers that they’d be more likely to employ him with a 5 year prison sentence on his CV than a 5 year PhD.

I work in a civil service/government type role and loads of people where I work have PhDs. 2 people in my team of 8 alone!

@Ryannah

Treat it as a hobby. It makes you virtually unemployable unless you’re lucky enough to get a lecturing job at university. In the past DH has been told by employers that they’d be more likely to employ him with a 5 year prison sentence on his CV than a 5 year PhD.

Nonsense. I work in a specialist field where we often sponsor people through PhD or they use their professional role as the basis for their research.

I mean, if he’s a sales manager for a mobile phone company, then maybe it wouldn’t help at all. But having a research degree in the field you work in is never going to hold you back. Universities aren’t the only places where research happens, and for my field, specialist knowledge is our currency.

I started mine at 45, after swithering for several years. I would have regretted it forever if I hadn't done it.

@Ryannah

Treat it as a hobby. It makes you virtually unemployable unless you’re lucky enough to get a lecturing job at university. In the past DH has been told by employers that they’d be more likely to employ him with a 5 year prison sentence on his CV than a 5 year PhD.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Gahd, that made my day.

I’m halfway through mine at the moment and I’m 50. It’s hard doing it part time on top of work and other commitments but I’m actually enjoying it.

My Aunt retired from teaching then did LLB, LLM and finished PhD in her mid 70s. Go for it!

I did mine after my BSc so I had finished by 25. This was pretty much the norm in my department (though there were a couple of mature students). Mine is in a STEM subject. About half of us are in industry and the rest are still in academia. I had great fun doing mine and have zero regrets. It’s definitely increased my salary and I have been actively employed because I have it rather than sneered at and avoided. I never use the title dr (apart from at work) and very few people out of my work environment know I have one. It makes me cringe when someone does the whole “actually it’s dr” thing. There is a certain type of person who does think it makes them better (I’ve met a fair few). I’m sure they feel discriminated against but it probably has more to do with them being a twat than having a PhD.

The PhD itself wasn’t actually that difficult - what is difficult is ploughing on alone and putting everything you have into a three year endeavour that might not be good enough at the end of it to actually receive your PhD. That’s not meant to be scary as you’d have to be pretty unlucky for that to happen (as long as you put the work in) - but mentally it’s hard to keep pushing through the low points when it seems such a long solitary task.

The comment re a potential employer having a preference for a 5 year prison sentence over a 5 year PhD makes sense to some extent as taking 5 years to do one would be a potential red flag for me - mine only took just over 3 and I dicked about a fair bit. Obviously if it’s part time then that’s different but when I did mine every one of us were working on the PhD full time and it was all industry funded research… the only person who took four years underwent treatment for very aggressive cancer part way through which is why they took a bit longer. They got better and are now very well known (internationally) in our field :-) I’m not, I’m your typically geeky introvert, but I work in a field that has a positive impact on people so it feels worthwhile.

I’d say go for it!

Started Aged 34. Full scholarship, had wanted to do one for ages, was so excited and enthusiastic... Became utterly bored of my subject by the time I'd finished! And mine was actually topical and interesting to most people and not related to some obscure piece of 18th century literature. Which brings me to the worst part of undertaking a PhD - listening to others drone on about their mind numbingly dull research in meetings/conferences etc. While trying to feign interest. Honestly I only kept ploughing through for ego purposes.

I have a PhD, and I've supervised quite a few PhDs, and two of them were retirement age by the time they submitted their theses (both very successfully!). Don't let age stop you, but I'd second what PPs have said about the shortage of jobs - I'd be wary of doing it for an academic job, because at the moment that's a total lottery. Grim, grim job situation.

I too find this very surprising.
My husband and I both have PhDsz
He works in Computing/AI/tech industry.
They don’t consider you if you don’t have at least a Master’s, and almost everyone has a PhD!
Arguably R&D in this field requires more than just basic grunt programming (which has its place absolutely) and which is reserved for those with Bachelors degrees only.

I’m almost inclined to say that nowadays as so many have a first degree, a PG degree is required to set you apart!

Sorry, above comment was with reference to the poster querying the other poster who said people with BSc (or BASc) were more likely to get a job than a PhD

@ClaraBean

And if you have, how old were you when you started it? I'm 42, and really feeling the urge to go back to uni and do my PhD. I'm obsessed with the idea. Will I be an old crone? Is it the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

I am a few years older than you and thinking about doing one.. go for it!

Finished PhD at 32 on a scholarship. Had to work part-time as funding didn't cover costs of living in London. Did a few lecturing jobs, and fellowships. Started my own business at 2008, which fits with family and doesn't drain your soul like working as an academic for a University. Recommend it for anyone who can get funding. Self funding students should give long consideration to the cost-benefit in their career area. Also have a good look at the personal situation as the end-stages of a PhD can be quite time intensive if you are working alongside, or have a young family.

Got mine at 25, if it’s useful in your industry great. You’re never too old. I needed one to progress but didn’t end up staying in that field and it has only ever been a positive for me, employment wise. I would agree with only doing it if you love it, it’s hard work.

I’m doing one now, started when I was 29 (am 31 now). I have a couple of fellow PhD students who are 50+. We all get along, age doesn’t really matter in this context!

I have one and did it between the ages of 30 and 34. Took a bit longer as I only had three years of funding and was working full time while writing up - not a strategy I recommend. Not much in the way of career benefit - in fact significant financial hit because you don’t progress as fast clinically but it changed me and makes me better at what I do now. It was very stressful and I would recommend picking your supervisor with as much care as you would pick a partner.

@ClaraBean I have this pinned up in my kitchen. Read it this morning and thought of you!

@Ryannah

Wow, what type of industry does your husband work in? Computing. So of course when he graduated and tried to get a job as a programmer alongside people with just a BSc, he wasn’t very successful. The same applies to any subject where the PhD isn’t absolutely essential for the job. I’m just saying think about long term job prospects because if the PhD isn’t essential it will damage your employability.

Nope. Both me and DH work in industries where PhDs are not madly uncommon but not unheard of - it's an asset.

Not computing so perfectly willing to concede that computing is full of blokes people with massive chips on their shoulder, but that isn't the case for grown up most industries.

@ClaraBean I have this pinned up in my kitchen. Read it this morning and thought of you

I'm not trying to be very negative or anything, but I have reservations about this kind of advice. I got a lot of it before I embarked upon my PhD and I wish I hadn't. I needed more realism.

A phd is an enormous commitment. It takes years. It impacts on much more than the person doing it. I wouldn't advise anyone to do it unless they have a really clear understanding of the level commitment involved (far, far more than a masters for example) and what they realistically hope to get out of it.

Mine categorically wasn't worth it and I came very close to complete breakdown over it. Obviously others have different and more positive experiences, but that's mine.

It was very stressful and I would recommend picking your supervisor with as much care as you would pick a partner.

This is excellent advice.

Re Supervisor- the whole thing hinges on that relationship. If you don’t get each other the project is doomed. Needs to be a feeling if you’re both in this together.

In the context as one poster said, it is a solitary endeavour. You don’t need to be pulling a dead weight in your supervisor. A good rapport will support and challenge a student to step out of their comfort zone.

I’m doing mine at the moment and I’m not much younger than you. It’s very, very hard and takes a lot of determination but it’s also very rewarding and satisfying. Expect enormous highs and lows, and to feel incredibly stupid a lot of the time, but otherwise go for it!

The comments about the IT industry are very interesting. My PhD is in the humanities and I work in a field where having a PhD is almost expected, and not having one severely limits your job prospects. However, I have previously worked in IT and sometimes went to university recruitment events on behalf of my company. I met a few PhD students at those who were utterly obnoxious and would come up to me to ask how much more than the stated starting salary they could expect to get, given that they were PhDs and therefore ‘worth more’. My bosses used to roll their eyes behind those students’ backs and say they would never hire anyone like that. I had no idea there was such a dim view of PhDs in the IT industry in general though!

I did mine age 38-45 (part-time while working full-time). It hasn't given me a boost career-wise, to be honest. I work in professional services in a university, so it might get me a bit of respect in some quarters, but no extra money. I did it for love of the subject, but my subject area is quite fast-moving, so I already feel my knowledge is a bit dated, as I haven't kept up with the literature since I finished. It doesn't seem to have helped my employability in that sector (different field from the one I work in).

The jury is still out, but on a strict cost-benefit analysis, I'm not convinced it really paid off.