To think learning how to behave around dogs should be part of the national curriculum

[Itsadogsworld]

I think schools should teach children how to behave around dogs, canine body language and so on. I think it would significantly reduce the number of children that end up in A&E each year due to dogs bites. I’ve seen some dreadful behaviour in my local park where children will run up to my dog and one child was continually trying to bear hug her own dog. Children clearly aren’t being taught this at home so I think they should include it in schools. I welcome your thoughts on this.

@rrhuth

There are 12.5 million dogs in the UK

I never understand pets fullstop, we had them when I was young, including dogs, but it is just horrible for them really.

Being an owned dog is a pretty unnatural life, I think if people did really care about dogs they would not want to keep them captive.

I agree - the so-called dog lovers don't seem to love them very much at all, especially those who have breeds who have problems bred into them so they look pretty.

If the child has ran up to a stranger's dog and hurt it or hugged it without permission?
You're probably flogging a dead horse by asking that question.

It would seem some parents genuinely think it's acceptable to place their child in entirely avoidable, potentially dangerous situations.

Why any parent would play roulette with their child's safety by allowing them to approach unknown animals is beyond me. Maybe they also let their children run into dual carriageways or cross on blind bends, or play in the middle of main roads because the drivers have to stop.

My experience (and I accept this is anecdotal) is that most parents don't let their children run up to strange dogs. A large proportion of parents view dogs as dangerous and dirty and would prefer that their children stay away from them. There is a big anti-dog contingent amongst the parents I know who would never dream of having dogs in the house.

Some parents no doubt do let their children accost passing dogs, but ime that small number is far outweighed by the number of dog owners who allow their dogs to run up to, sniff around and jump on people (including very small children) and think it's fine because they shout "he's friendly!"

I accept it's probably worse for small, "cute" dogs as they're the most likely to attract attention from children and parents are going to be less frantic (and therefore less quick to intervene) than if they saw a huge, out of control mutt bounding towards their kids.

I would agree education is needed on both sides. Dog owners need to understand that it is unacceptable for their dogs to approach and bother strangers (even if they're 'friendly' ) and parents need to return the favour.

A large proportion of parents view dogs as dangerous and dirty and would prefer that their children stay away from them. There is a big anti-dog contingent amongst the parents I know who would never dream of having dogs in the house

Blimey! This is nothing like my experience.

The idea that a well trained dog wouldn't bite is incredibly naive.

I was walking my dog along the seafront a couple of years ago. He was on a short, fixed lead, walking to heel; completely under my control as the law requires and minding his own business. I passed a picnic table with a family sitting at it, as we approached the little boy (possibly 7 ot 8) got up from the table, jumped in front of my dog with his arms outstretched, bent down and screamed in my dogs face. My dog didn't react and I was too shocked to say anything, in fact it was so sudden I was frightened by the behaviour. The little boy thought it was very funny and the parents said nothing. I reassured my dog, moved round the little boy and we went on our way.

How exactly does someone think I could train my dog to either anticipate or deal with that situation? Should I practice jumping out on him at home, screaming in his face and then rewarding him for not biting? The only thing that would accomplish is to make my dog fearful of people and more likely to be aggressive. Effective training does it include frightening your dog to prepare them for unpredictable people.

I get the impression posters here think it would have been mine or my dogs fault if the child had been bitten in that situation. We were minding our own business and doing everything in accordance with the law. Did the parents, who were no doubt as shocked as I was, not have a responsibility to use the opportunity to reprimand the child and highlight the dangers of their behaviour?

does not not does it

There is responsibility on both sides, but equally, I'm not a dog owner and likely never will be. I tell any DC in my care not to approach a dog without asking, but apart from that, I don't know what a dog's signs/triggers are. I shouldn't have to. The owner should be able to regulate this; if the dog is uncomfortable, they should say no to the child stroking it. Of course if the child ignores this I will step in.

But I've seen incidents where owners have either said yes to the attention but then the dog has snapped, or (far more common) the dog is off lead and simply runs to the child, so there's no opportunity to check in with the owner. Often owners will shout, "it's okay! He's friendly!" But why does that mean it's okay? The child at that point might react to a strange dog running up by lashing out with hands/feet etc, which is understandable. And then of course the dog snaps, and the owner is aghast that the child "hit" their dog etc.

I despise dog owners who think everyone else wants to interact with their dog.

I was attacked by a Rottweiler when I was waiting outside of a shop when I was a small child. In no way did I provoke the dog, I didn't even see it until it's teeth were in me.

No amount of education can prepare a child for that. It is, perhaps the owners that should be educated on how to control their animals and not expect everyone else to love their pet.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam

@Sidehustle99
So you think it's the child's fault if they end up in A&E?

No it's the owners fault 100%

No dog with aggressive behavioural problems should ever be around children.

If the child has ran up to a stranger's dog and hurt it or hugged it without permission?

Yes my statement stands. I am a big dog owner and always have been. It would be my responsibility. How would a dog understand permission to a child?

Aggressive dogs should be muzzled to stop them biting children and other dogs.

How do you stand on babies in car steats/Parma etc being mauled? My DC have many times been licked by dogs off the lead. Fortunately nothing bad happened. My aunt was very badly bitten as a 3YO and nearly lost an eye and has severe facial disfigurement. She was in her own garden at the time. The dog barged through the hedge to get her.

So as a devout dog lover I say again. It is always the owners fault.

Shouldn't the responsibility be on the dog owner to train the dog on how to behave in public and around children?

Shouldn't the responsibility be on the dog owner to train the dog on how to behave in public and around children?
Of course there is a responsibility for the dog owner to appropriately train their dog. That doesn't remove responsibility for parents to apply a shred of common sense and take responsibility for their child.

It doesn't mean it's acceptable for irresponsible parents to allow their precious children to approach, run at, hit, grab, touch and generally scare dogs who are minding their own business.

Any responsible parent would not be putting their child's safety and welfare in the hands of a stranger and an unknown animal.

My experience (and I accept this is anecdotal) is that most parents don't let their children run up to strange dogs. A large proportion of parents view dogs as dangerous and dirty and would prefer that their children stay away from them
Not my experience either. It might be with large dogs, but cute small dogs seem to be viewed as toys that kids should be allowed to play with. My dog isn't aggressive at all, but is fearful of children. Yet all the time I have children coming to him trying to pet him and parents just make noise how cute his. I then say that he is not good with kids, the kids if ore me and start pestering him and the parent usually just say gently 'sweety, the dog doesn't want to be touched' which is 9 times out of 10 ignored by the child and I have to just pick up my dog and move away.

@Flipflopblowout

Shouldn't the responsibility be on the dog owner to train the dog on how to behave in public and around children?

There should be responsibility on parents to teach their children not to approach strange dogs, and definitely not tug on their ears, bear hug them or try to kick them.

@vivainsomnia

My experience (and I accept this is anecdotal) is that most parents don't let their children run up to strange dogs. A large proportion of parents view dogs as dangerous and dirty and would prefer that their children stay away from them Not my experience either. It might be with large dogs, but cute small dogs seem to be viewed as toys that kids should be allowed to play with. My dog isn't aggressive at all, but is fearful of children. Yet all the time I have children coming to him trying to pet him and parents just make noise how cute his. I then say that he is not good with kids, the kids if ore me and start pestering him and the parent usually just say gently 'sweety, the dog doesn't want to be touched' which is 9 times out of 10 ignored by the child and I have to just pick up my dog and move away.

That has been my experience too. Small dogs/puppies seem to be fair game for kids to approach. I have been in a cafe with a friend who had a puppy sat at her feet. We heard a noise, and saw a little girl led on her stomach under our table, trying to play with the dog. She was told twice to leave the dog alone, and even her mum said we had to let her pet the puppy. FFS.

@Flipflopblowout

Shouldn't the responsibility be on the dog owner to train the dog on how to behave in public and around children?

It is also the responsibility of the parent to train teach the child how to behave around dogs.

I have a dog who would really just prefer to be left in peace by strangers. He'll walk straight past strangers because he has no interest in them. According to many on this thread this is perfect.

Yet I've had a parent put their toddler down and tell them to go and stroke my dog without asking. I've had primary aged children chase him as he walks away even when I've told them not to; the parents didn't intervene.

A friend of a friend had a child walk up to their dog and give it a hard kick; frankly the child deserved to be bitten. The dog had always been fine with kids before that, but unfortunately the dog developed an entirely understandable fear of children after tthat and felt that the best form of defence was attack.

Wouldn't it be lovely if people could just totally abdicate responsibility and think that it's other people's job to keep them safe? Real life isn't like that.

[quote Sidehustle99]@AllThingsServeTheBeam

@Sidehustle99
So you think it's the child's fault if they end up in A&E?

No it's the owners fault 100%

No dog with aggressive behavioural problems should ever be around children.

If the child has ran up to a stranger's dog and hurt it or hugged it without permission?

Yes my statement stands. I am a big dog owner and always have been. It would be my responsibility. How would a dog understand permission to a child?

Aggressive dogs should be muzzled to stop them biting children and other dogs.

How do you stand on babies in car steats/Parma etc being mauled? My DC have many times been licked by dogs off the lead. Fortunately nothing bad happened. My aunt was very badly bitten as a 3YO and nearly lost an eye and has severe facial disfigurement. She was in her own garden at the time. The dog barged through the hedge to get her.

So as a devout dog lover I say again. It is always the owners fault.
[/quote]
Completely different situations. If a child is allowed to approach a dog they don't know and scare or hurt it it is not the fault of the bloody dog.

@vivainsomnia

My experience (and I accept this is anecdotal) is that most parents don't let their children run up to strange dogs. A large proportion of parents view dogs as dangerous and dirty and would prefer that their children stay away from them Not my experience either. It might be with large dogs, but cute small dogs seem to be viewed as toys that kids should be allowed to play with. My dog isn't aggressive at all, but is fearful of children. Yet all the time I have children coming to him trying to pet him and parents just make noise how cute his. I then say that he is not good with kids, the kids if ore me and start pestering him and the parent usually just say gently 'sweety, the dog doesn't want to be touched' which is 9 times out of 10 ignored by the child and I have to just pick up my dog and move away.

Yes, this is my experience too with a small 'cute' breed who's never off the lead when other people and dogs are around, I've also been called 'mean' when asking children not to approach my on lead and under control dog. She loves people, she's a friendly mess of wagging body that's desperate to be anyone's friend, but I can't 100% say that if anyone hurt her either by accident or on purpose, she wouldn't respond by snapping because she's a dog and in light of that I keep her on the lead, by my side and give people a bit of distance, I've still had children keep running at her, grab for her etc and parents get annoyed with me when I prevent the interaction by picking her up. One kicked a football straight at her, she yelped because it hurt. I accept that not all dog owners keep their dogs under control, I've met them often enough when their off lead dog bounds up to my on lead one with shouts of "He's friendly". But children do it too and parents allow it, and when they allow or even encourage it and attempt to circumnavigate my attempts to stop the interaction, it's annoying and dangerous and they need to start respecting my boundaries, just because I have a small and cute dog does not mean she's public property and should be available for anyone to do with what they want and then blame me for any outcome.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

It doesn't say anywhere here 'if a vicious toddler approaches my dog and I haven't given them the wink'.

It is always the owners fault. You know this so you need to be more vocal/protective to protect your cute (would never bite, until it does) dog from being put in that position. A short lead should keep your dog close enough to you so you can response accordingly.

I teach my children to steer clear of all dogs. They are not allowed to approach them and certainly not pet them. I was bitten by the neighbour’s dog as a child - there was no provocation on my part, I was just standing next to my mum while she chatted to the neighbour and ignoring the dog when it bit my hand - and as strange as it sounds, I’m kind of glad it happened because it made me aware that owners assessments of their dog’s friendliness and trustworthiness are not always reliable.

I like dogs, but bloody hell, there are some badly trained ones with shitty owners around here. Including the one who let his two big dogs loose in the (no dogs allowed) children’s play area, then stood there laughing as they chased my terrified, autistic child.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

It doesn't say anywhere here 'if a vicious toddler approaches my dog and I haven't given them the wink'.

It is always the owners fault. You know this so you need to be more vocal/protective to protect your cute (would never bite, until it does) dog from being put in that position. A short lead should keep your dog close enough to you so you can response accordingly.

So just to check, you're quite happy to put your child's safety and welfare in the hands of a stranger and an unknown animal, of unknown temperament, put your child into an entirely avoidable, potentially dangerous situation because in the event your child is badly injured you can say 'well it was the owner's fault'?

Do you also allow your children to charge out into roads on the grounds that the driver should stop?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofffataldoggattacksinntheUniteddKingdom

UK estimates suggest that 740 people per 100 000 population per year are bitten by dogs with 250,000 people attending minor injury and emergency units each year due to dog bites. Many non-fatal and fatal dog attacks may be preventable.
sciencesearch.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Menu=Menu&Module=More&Location=None&Completed=0&ProjectID=16649

33,000 postmen and postwomen have been attacked by dogs in last decade. Over 80% at the front door, garden path or drive.
www.royalmail.com/personal/dog-awareness

I love my dog and I absolutely take accountability for my dogs behaviour.

@Sidehustle99

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofffataldoggattacksinntheUniteddKingdom

UK estimates suggest that 740 people per 100 000 population per year are bitten by dogs with 250,000 people attending minor injury and emergency units each year due to dog bites. Many non-fatal and fatal dog attacks may be preventable.
sciencesearch.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Menu=Menu&Module=More&Location=None&Completed=0&ProjectID=16649

33,000 postmen and postwomen have been attacked by dogs in last decade. Over 80% at the front door, garden path or drive.
www.royalmail.com/personal/dog-awareness

I love my dog and I absolutely take accountability for my dogs behaviour.

If people love their children then maybe they should be accountable for their actions and stop the situation ever arising

@LolaSmiles

I never said that. My DC have respect for animals and would always ask a dog owner if it was ok before approaching.

I don't want MN posters to think that they won't be liable if their dog bites as some posters seem to think. They would be.

@Sidehustle99

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

It doesn't say anywhere here 'if a vicious toddler approaches my dog and I haven't given them the wink'.

It is always the owners fault. You know this so you need to be more vocal/protective to protect your cute (would never bite, until it does) dog from being put in that position. A short lead should keep your dog close enough to you so you can response accordingly.

Where exactly do I say this "cute (would never bite, until it does) dog"

I actually say I can't 100% say if she was hurt she wouldn't. And that's why I am vocal in stopping my dog being put in that situation - so stop reading things that aren't there and twisting things to suit your agenda.
I'm aware of the law, Its why I do what I do and it may be my responsibility to do that because she's my dog, and I do it, that doesn't mean if a toddler (without me giving the wink) decides to try and drop kick her like a rugby ball that it's my fault, fault would mean I've done something wrong - what exactly would that be? Not regularly hurting my dog to ensure she doesn't react should the parents of a child decide to ignore me and circumnavigate my efforts to stop an interaction taking place?
I take all reasonable precautions to prevent it happening, I cannot control other people's children, I control my dog, I physically intervene when this type of situation occurs.
You just seem determined to exempt parents who behave this way from any responsibility for their own children whatsoever.

When did I say I'd be happy to let my DC do any of those reckless things?

This is doolally.