Having a child is the worst thing you can do for the environment

[saveourtrees]

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. My family of 7 (I will not apologise for my children's lives) create less waste than my brother and his girlfriend. In fact we take in their pet waste and food waste for composting.
Virtually all of our clothes, toys, boardgames, furniture is secondhand. A couple of white goods (does oven count as white goods?)
we grow our some of own food, process and preserve, batchcook and freeze, hardly ever use the heating (hot water bottles and blankets), bake, make dinners from scratch etc.
I knit (using wool from the charity shop), sew badly to fix holes in clothes.
we don't buy cards or wrapping paper, we do absolutely everything we can.

We still make about 1.5 black bags full of rubbish a week though, solely from food packaging. We just don't have enough to stretch to a zero waste bulk shop in the city center. But one day, when I go back to work I think we could probably manage it.

So why am I feeling guilty for having children? If it wasn't for my children I probably wouldn't have even cared as much about the environment and the state of the world. A big drive for me changing from a typical consumer to a more conscious one was the birth of my first child. Suddenly when people asked 'what world are we leaving for our children?' they were talking about my children.

I think the eco conscious people not reproducing to ''save the planet'' is stupid. If the people who care, who would teach their children to mend and say no to fast fashion, eat less meat, don't holiday abroad, etc. .. if they don't have children but the avid consumers do then isn't that worse? There will be less eco friendly grownups in 20/ 30 years but just as many grown-ups who weren't taught by their parents how to be eco friendly

I don't know, but don't come onto mumsnet and tell mums they shouldn't have had their children. That really is horrible.

@MarshaBradyo

Surely the issue is global carbon emissions, not UK carbon emissions? In which case immigration has no impact on this.

Yes that’s what I thought too. Also immigration might help two fold, make up reducing birth rate in richer countries but also poorer countries are going to be hit harder by climate change.

It doesn’t help at all when immigrants match the natives in terms of carbon emissions. And at least the first generation have more children too.

If you want to reduce the carbon emissions of developing countries like the UK or US, you should be supportive of initiatives to reduce immigration.

We’d have a declining population already without it.

Whether you want a declining population or not depends on where you fall on the decision to prioritise the environment or the economy. (Or be like Japan and just not prefer foreigners lol)

Population of poorer countries would not significantly change with or without immigration so not seeing the argument there.

UsedUp true they might match lifestyle

But if we need a workforce made up in any way it makes some sense to take people from worst affected areas rather than keep birth rate higher

You should enjoy the time with your family and consider yourself lucky, brave and hard-working.

I agree

People trot out that “oh well having children is the most environmentally unfriendly thing you can do”

And think this absolves them of having to make any changes to their own lives

But would you want someone to have said this to your parents, about you? It’s equally valid about all of us - if any of us wasn’t here it would be environmentally better

One of your kids may grow up to solve climate change. Who knows.

At the end of the day what’s done is done, they’re here. The best thing you can do is instill reuse, reduce, recycle into them - buy second hand where you can, watch your water/energy usage and eat less meat.

That’s really all any of us can do unfortunately a majority of climate change is at the hands of conglomerates. Sue down the road having a few extra kids won’t really affect much.

As others have said it’s the longer term impact- if your 5 kids have 5 kids each and then those 25 kids all did the same then in just another couple of generations there would be an astronomical number of extra people (granted they’re not all likely to do that but it’s where the concern about numbers come in). That said, I have 3 and believe you should do what you want, so I’m not criticising, I just that I think you do have to own it that having a lot of kids is a big factor. It is still great that you’re doing all the other things you do though!

Always astonished by people who defend having children on the basis they may solve climate change or cure cancer or discover a new planet.... The chances of that are slim. Just own up to having them because you wanted them!

I agree with you @MareofBeasttown

I can say with almost absolute certainty that neither of my two will “solve climate change”

@MareofBeasttown

Always astonished by people who defend having children on the basis they may solve climate change or cure cancer or discover a new planet.... The chances of that are slim. Just own up to having them because you wanted them!

Some might become murders or cause a major environmental disaster by accident which is equally as likely.

I think individualising this is silly. Generally speaking, once women have control over their fertility and their lives generally they seem to settle at somewhere between no children and two children, so the odd large family is more than balanced out in contemporary western societies. A too-swift drop in fertility would actually be a disaster socially & eventually politically, because it would create a very unbalanced population, especially given how long people in affluent countries now live (& relying on very high levels of immigration to plug the gaps just equals a brain drain in poorer countries + a boost to the Right in richer countries, so not sure that works either). Basically we need a very gentle population decline, which is naturally happening.

@MsTSwift

I can say with almost absolute certainty that neither of my two will “solve climate change”

If mine manage to clean their own rooms I will be very surprised, let alone clean the earth.

@MareofBeasttown

Always astonished by people who defend having children on the basis they may solve climate change or cure cancer or discover a new planet.... The chances of that are slim. Just own up to having them because you wanted them!

Sad that parents even feel they have to “defend themselves” and “own up” in your eyes

@MsTSwift

I can say with almost absolute certainty that neither of my two will “solve climate change”

*snorts* mine either!

Aside from that it’s undeniable that humans in general are bad for the planets ecosystem in our current numbers and lifestyles. We impact it massively therefore adding extra is just factually bad for the planet.

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting existing children shouldn’t exist but that we all need to be mindful that our choices will have a a consequence. I haven’t seen anyone advocating for a ‘quietening’ (children of men - excellent book/film btw).

@saveourtrees - you seem to be taking a global issue/problem for humanity awfully personally. In the nicest way possible, discussions around population aren’t aimed at you personally, you’ve already made your choices, but perhaps this is an issue your children will be more likely to consider when deciding on their own families.

I agree with what @Icebreaker99 said.

You say you can't afford to shop zero waste, but if you had 1 or 2 fewer mouths to feed then you might be able to.

So in that sense, having so many children has negatively impacted your contribution to the environment.

Saying you doubt any of your children will get cars is very naive.

@MarshaBradyo

UsedUp true they might match lifestyle

But if we need a workforce made up in any way it makes some sense to take people from worst affected areas rather than keep birth rate higher

I kind of disagree, people always complain about Japan’s low birth rate and the shrinking population, but it can be made up with productivity and certain technological advancements.

However, if you do want immigration to make up for the shortfall in labour, why intake from the ‘worst hit’ areas rather than evaluating applicants with skills that match your labour shortages?

Also, it’s a bit infuriating on one hand to say, stop having children, then on the other complain about labour shortages. Not aiming this at you Marsha it’s just a common sentiment I hear

It’s an interesting debate @UsedUpUsername; how do we balance reducing populations against the requirements of the current population. Ultimately inverse pyramid populations put a very heavy burden on the young but that has to be balanced against future generations. The obvious answer is like @MarshaBradyo says and to embrace immigration and spread populations more evenly across the globe. That’s not a perfect solution from the perspective of an individual though whose desires and ambitions may not fall in line what would be best for humanity.

It’s interesting, if unknown and troublesome, times.

Used yes I agree technology will fill some gaps and I think U.K. is aiming for this in recent language re skills

But on who to take it’s still possible to use points system to match what you need, it may be that the drive for those in worst hit areas is higher so more are keen rather than just targeting them

How have you changed your “lifestyle massively”?

Well just doing as many of the things we're supposed to do for climate as I can & continuing to make changes. Reducing consumption and waste, vegan diet, electric car, shop local & responsibly. I'm far from perfect but I'm always trying and I was never like this pre kids.

I can say with almost absolute certainty that neither of my two will “solve climate change”

Well mine neither but I think their generation as a whole will be a lot better than ours because of how they're brought up and what they're taught in school

Anti-natalism can be perceived as yet another way to attack women.
Boris Johnson is seen as 'amusing' and a bit of a rogue for the amount of children he has fathered but heaven forfend a women has more than two, or one, or not enough or, or or.....

It's also a very Western way of thinking about the world whereas in other areas the amount of children you have depends on your religion, culture or sometimes survival. Not that it should, but it does.

@whenthedoveslie

Doesn't sound much fun for your children OP. Cramped in 2 bedrooms, all second hand and make do and mend... Chances are they will resent this way of living once they hit their teens, and as adults may well seek to live in the opposite way to a childhood you foisted on them by having 5 you seemingly can't afford.

I agree about the bedroom part. I know I'd have absolutely hated this as a kid.