Not having a university education- watching the show "Lewis"- is it almost that bad in the UK?

[Evangeli]

I'm watching and really enjoying the TV show "Lewis"- I used to love Morse, and I'm a sucker for that kind of British murder mystery.

I used to live in the UK but haven't done so for at least twenty years. I live in Canada.

What really strikes me is that almost every 5 minutes there's some reference to Lewis's lack of university education. Just now:
The doctor says: "It's "Merchant of Venice"
Lewis (looking really confused and clearly making an effort): "That's the one about the pound of flesh, right"
Doctor smiles and rolls eyes "Yes Lewis".

And this is constant with his educated sergeant.

I get the show is set in Oxford and the running set-up is they're surrounded by academic types, and also it's a tv show and not real life. But still. This kind of thing would be really bad manners irl! and it is constant throughout each episode. I remember the difference in education and class between Morse and Lewis from the originals, but looking back, I feel it wasn't so blatant- I mean it was clearly there, but wasn't being openly referenced every five minutes.

I guess my question is: if you don't have a university degree in the UK, are going to be reminded of it continuously by your colleagues? Or are the writers completely fictionalizing?

I don't remember my physics degree going into much depth about Shakespeare, to be honest.

Rolling eyes about your colleagues' remarkable ignorance of common knowledge (that is, whatever bits you know that they don't) is kind of a British hobby, yes.

I've never heard anyone make a comment like that, especially as the vast majority of university degrees don't study The Merchant of Venice!

You know how secret service agents dont really go around firing off innuendo-laden quips to hot women in cocktail bars?

This is a bit like that

Im always reminded of it. Mostly city-based colleagues always ask me what uni i went to or what i studied, rather than "whats your background".

I don't think it is meant to illustrate that this is endemic in the UK. After all, I know people who don't have the education I have who can do things I can't -- fix a car engine, install lighting, arrange a mortgage, plumb in a sink, etc. Most people are not condescending in this way because everyone has different skills.

In 'Morse' there was always the contrast between the intellectual, crossword-solving Morse who liked to solve a puzzle, and the more everyday, down-to-earth Lewis -- they came to respect each other. Occasionally Lewis would know details which were helpful in a case which would totally elude Morse, because they were about popular TV or modern music or something.

So I think they're just continuing this into 'Lewis'. He's shown as being a very efficient and clever policeman who doesn't need a university education to prove that. I always imagined there were lots of people like Lewis in the police force.

I haven't seen Lewis, but I'm guessing that it's referenced so often so that audiences who've switched on halfway through the series or episode know about that aspect of characterisation. Same as how Grand Designs periodically covers what has already happened, because it knows that a not insignificant part of it's audience won't have been watching from the start. Does feel a bit like being hit over the head with a sledgehammer while watching though.

I once managed a snarty graduate trainee who made an official complaint that it was unfair that he was expected to be managed by someone without a degree. HR said that was fine and ended his contract, but other than that, I've not had any negative comments.

Can't say my life has changed at all since gaining an MSc in my late 40s.

I always laughed at the lecturers and do on constantly banging on about how they were busy couldn't talk now and were about to go off to sing madrigals

Well....I think all of this is context dependent. People don't generally comment on whether somebody does or doesn't have a university education no, but in some fields where it is expected, it might be remarked on, but not necessarily negatively.

Most of the people I work with have PhDs and I don't, and I and they often remark on it but in very good humour. It's funny to me and them, not serious, so therefore not rude.

@DadOnIce
I get the general intention, to contrast the educated policeman with the down-to-earth lower class one- I'm half-way through season 2 now and honestly I wonder how Lewis himself hasn't murdered Hathaway. Because Hathaway, his sergent, also makes continuous snide references (at one point telling him "you're starting to sound like you have real chip on your shoulder" in reference to his lack of university education / dislike of academics).

@PermanentLockdown
I understand it's not real life! But the dialogue and characterization is supposed to sound plausible and life-like, right? Even if it is like 60% true, it's a lot! and especially from an inferior towards his superior. (Hathaway towards Lewis)

I think it's just that Morse is like that rather than British people in general

I'd be careful thinking modern society is like UK TV or you'll be thinking the countryside is the most dangerous place in the world if you watch Midsomer Murders

@Brefugee haha I just watched that scene and rolled my eyes so hard they almost fell out of my head.
"I can't stay long, I'm singing madrigals".

That one I find less obnoxious and more charming- the running gag of the show is about these clueless, head-in-clouds academics after all.
The one about education (which is, obviously, proxy for class) is kinda getting annoying.

My husband is a very clever man with two degrees and a lot of knowledge about a lot of stuff. He doesn’t know one end of Shakespeare from the other 😂

I’m from a lower middle class background and certainly there’s surprise now if someone my age (40ish) doesn’t have a degree, but no outright rudeness. And for my parents generation- of whom Lewis is comparable in age- it was the norm to have not gone to university with our background unless it was for something specific (to be a doctor or go into law). Both my parents attended grammar school but neither went to university, they joined the Civil Service.

I’ve never watched Morse or Lewis (although I know a bit about it, my parents love both) but my guess would be it’s because of the setting and the class of Morse (who is meant to be quite fancy, right?)

@StrongArm Oh you mean British countryside is not literally littered with dead bodies murdered for their aspirations to be the next book club president !?

I know. But I think maybe the conversation and the way characters relate to each other in TV shows is supposed to have a degree of veracity that the actual plot clearly isn't intended to have.

@Deliaskis "Most of the people I work with have PhDs and I don't, and I and they often remark on it but in very good humour. It's funny to me and them, not serious, so therefore not rude."

I'm glad you don't find it bothersome, and I'm not suggesting you should, but honestly, I'm struggling to imagine a workplace where it would be acceptable to "often" remark on a colleague's lack of PhD in a "funny way".

@TrampolineForMrKite
"I’m from a lower middle class background and certainly there’s surprise now if someone my age (40ish) doesn’t have a degree, "

Huh.

IMHO, I think it is poor manners to betray "surprise" that a colleague of whatever age doesn't have a degree. And it would be really disrespectful to constantly remind them of it!

I think it’s supposed to be a snobbery both ways. Lewis doesn’t care about all the high brow academics and their pomp and ceremony and so he looks down on them for that. Then they are also snobby to him as he’s not well read etc. I think as Lewis usually figures out the crime and arrests them in the end he has the upper hand!

I love Lewis so much! I hope you’re also watching Endeavour? It’s wonderful! I can recommend Grantchester also.

Surely it’s for the audience’s benefit. So that anyone watching knows what’s going on.
All policeman have a side kick who asks questions on our behalf. In Lewis it’s the other way round because Lewis used to be Morse’s sidekick.

Endeavour was AMAZING and I loved it. And I was totally crushing on the actor playing the young Morse.

I was actually liking the actor who plays Hathaway too, then I accidentally googled him and realised he's become a total dick-head and professional race-baiter since, and I can't help watching him through that lens.

I agree that "reverse snobbery" is a real thing. But the thing is, when you remind someone of their lack of education, you are "punching down", as they say. To make fun of someone for their highbrow nonsense is "punching up". It's not the same.

I think it's to show contrast to Morse and also to Hathaway, and also to show what Oxford is 'like'. I don't think it would be the same if Lewis was serving in another city, I think it's supposed to say something about the setting and the characters he is surrounded by. Lewis was always the straight man to the more esoteric characters in the show.

God, I LOVE the Morse/Lewis/Endeavour tv shows.

Yes it is a bit like 007 jumping off a sixty foot building whilst having his hands tied and evading fifteen sharp shooters..and then getting the girl (or girls) in the end.

Fiction, isn't it? That's the lovely thing about it, within reason fiction writers are allowed to invent whatever they like, aren't they?

@beigebrownblue I agree the plot is supposed to be fictional and I don't for a moment believe that Oxford has as many murderous dons as the series suggests.

However, I think the conversation and characterization is supposed to be a plausible representation of how real life characters talk and behave.

For example, take Downton Abbey. Obviously the plot is fictional. But people of that class, in that era, did talk and dress that like that. it's not all complete imagination.

Even a fantasy series, like Narnia. The way the characters talk and behave are in line with how real children would talk and behave- if they were placed in that fantasy land.

I've got an English degree from a Russell group uni and I've never read the Merchant of Venice

This sort of nonsense doesn't happen in my life. I know a lot of super bright (and kind) people. They range from farmers who left school at 16 to join (then leave) the police, to PhDs and medics and everyone in between. I can have a great conversation with any of them about anything. Abs the brightest ones are the first to admit when they DON'T know something