Not having a university education- watching the show "Lewis"- is it almost that bad in the UK?

[Evangeli]

I'm watching and really enjoying the TV show "Lewis"- I used to love Morse, and I'm a sucker for that kind of British murder mystery.

I used to live in the UK but haven't done so for at least twenty years. I live in Canada.

What really strikes me is that almost every 5 minutes there's some reference to Lewis's lack of university education. Just now:
The doctor says: "It's "Merchant of Venice"
Lewis (looking really confused and clearly making an effort): "That's the one about the pound of flesh, right"
Doctor smiles and rolls eyes "Yes Lewis".

And this is constant with his educated sergeant.

I get the show is set in Oxford and the running set-up is they're surrounded by academic types, and also it's a tv show and not real life. But still. This kind of thing would be really bad manners irl! and it is constant throughout each episode. I remember the difference in education and class between Morse and Lewis from the originals, but looking back, I feel it wasn't so blatant- I mean it was clearly there, but wasn't being openly referenced every five minutes.

I guess my question is: if you don't have a university degree in the UK, are going to be reminded of it continuously by your colleagues? Or are the writers completely fictionalizing?

[quote Evangeli]@beigebrownblue I agree the plot is supposed to be fictional and I don't for a moment believe that Oxford has as many murderous dons as the series suggests.

However, I think the conversation and characterization is supposed to be a plausible representation of how real life characters talk and behave.

For example, take Downton Abbey. Obviously the plot is fictional. But people of that class, in that era, did talk and dress that like that. it's not all complete imagination.

Even a fantasy series, like Narnia. The way the characters talk and behave are in line with how real children would talk and behave- if they were placed in that fantasy land.[/quote]
Well...er...yes.
If it weren't interesting and/or dramatic you wouldn't want to read the book/watch the series, would you?

Me and most of my peers haven't been to uni. Never gets mentioned.

That's why writers do their research isn't it?
So that the fiction is believable...

[quote Evangeli]@Deliaskis "Most of the people I work with have PhDs and I don't, and I and they often remark on it but in very good humour. It's funny to me and them, not serious, so therefore not rude."

I'm glad you don't find it bothersome, and I'm not suggesting you should, but honestly, I'm struggling to imagine a workplace where it would be acceptable to "often" remark on a colleague's lack of PhD in a "funny way".[/quote]
Well I guess it is rather situation dependent, but I work with some very smart scientific types who are perhaps less smart in other areas of life and work...and I am pretty senior in my organisation and have their respect. So when I do or discover something they hadn't thought of, there is sometimes a tongue in cheek 'and she doesn't even have a PhD', or if I have skim read an email and not picked up something they all did, I might say 'it's because I don't have a PhD obviously'. I'm regularly asked to input on things that they have said they need an 'actual clever brain' for, as they acknowledge that they are generally clever at one thing only.

So I guess it happens when I'm either running rings round them, or I'm making faux excuses for not having done or noticed something. Either way, we are peers and also friends and I have no doubt whatsoever that when it is mentioned by others, it is almost always to draw attention to the fact that people with more qualifications are not always better/smarter etc.

I think you are expecting rather too much from a middlebrow TV detective show. The characters are “types” rather than fully-formed individuals, with easily-read characteristics (snobby/academic/down-to-Earth/heart of gold) rather than sophisticated personality types.

Is this indicative of real UK society? A bit, maybe, but only in the way that Baywatch was indicative of California beach society or CSI is indicative of the culture of US police.

@beigebrownblue So do you think the WAY that characters in works of fiction (TV, novels, whatever) talk and behave is completely imaginary? Not the actual plot, but just in how the speak and interact?

The whole reason we find these things interesting and dramatic is that we can relate to the characters, understand them. If it was as completely fictional and imaginary as you suggest, why would I even care?
Eg, readers really relate to, and understand Bilbo Baggins frustration and bewilderment when a bunch of dwarves gatecrash his place and take him off on an adventure. Bilbo uses a language which is very realistic and authentic to express his very relatable frustration, and we love it. Obviously we understand that hobbits and dwarves are imaginary- but we can relate. Bilbo acts "in character", as it were.

And then, when as happened with me watching "Lewis" that veneer of plausibility is torn, I get irritated.

@Deliaskis thanks for providing the context. I think what you're describing is in fact a good example of the "punching up" I mentioned earlier, and that is why it's not offensive or disrespectful.

@MasterBeth point taken. These type of "genre" works are usually types, fair enough.

I just found myself sensitized to just HOW MUCH Lewis's colleagues comment on his lack of education. Like, ok , we get it!

In my workplace, and in what @shallIswim describes, it's simply not ok to comment on that, but it does seem from other people's experience it can be common.

Fairly sure I did Merchant of Venice for GCSE

completely misses point of thread

It's certainly true that fewer people of my generation went to university, unless they were aiming for professions which specifically required a degree, like medicine. My grammar school didn't turn a hair when I opted for teacher training college at 18; in those days, a teacher training certificate was not a graduate qualification, and as I was teaching primary school aged children, a degree was not considered necessary. But times were changing, and the push was on to make all teachers graduates, from the end of the 60's onwards, and many careers which could be followed by "working up the ranks" now need a degree for starters. I acquired my degree through part-time study while still teaching. I realise this would be much harder now, with lack of grants and vastly increased workload.
I think the attitudes shown in "Endeavour" reflect those times (so many resonances from the days when I was young and flighty!) and to some extent "Lewis", set at a later period , shows this lingering on; the contrast between a "down-to-earth man of the people" and a "cloistered academic" has been emphasised for dramatic effect.
In "real life" I have rarely heard anybody refer to the degree held (or not) by colleagues, except jokingly to my great friend who ended up specialising in Design/Technology, having a theology degree.

@shallIswim

This sort of nonsense doesn't happen in my life. I know a lot of super bright (and kind) people. They range from farmers who left school at 16 to join (then leave) the police, to PhDs and medics and everyone in between. I can have a great conversation with any of them about anything. Abs the brightest ones are the first to admit when they DON'T know something

This.... All my very highly educated pals are like this....

There's lot of inverted snobbery generally in society in the UK I think.

I've been around people who when (perfectly pleasant, compétent graduates) are out of ear shot, say X thinks they are better than us as they've got a degree...

X may be a graduate, but they've got no common sense /not been to the 'university of life /hard knocks

That kind of comment might fly if talking to an English Literature graduate but I've never met anyone who knows lots about everything so it would be easy to shame them back.

At my last job, it was the other way round. I was one of the few with a degree, which had been on my cv when I was recruited.

Every day, snide comments about 3 years drinking and freeloading off the tax payer etc. It got very boring.

It’s nowhere near like that in real life in the UK- the producers just ham that up for Lewis.

Lewis and Endeavour aren’t a patch on Morse though. I really miss John Thaw, and Colin Dexter!

@PermanentLockdown

You know how secret service agents dont really go around firing off innuendo-laden quips to hot women in cocktail bars?

This is a bit like that

@MintJulia I have definitely encountered that, as have my peers, and in fact in my last job I left the "letters" off my email sig I was so afraid of ppl thinking I would think myself "too good" or arrogant- I had heard nasty stories about toxic workplace cultures where ppl were bullied for that sort of thing. (as it so happens, I needn't have worried, everybody was perfectly nice).

Which I guess makes the "Lewis" thing even more jarring for me! People get shit for being over-educated in my world...

Lewis has a lot of "it is Oxford" references as in 'we exist in this academic bubble', or an only in Oxford would anyone care' kind o manner.
It's an exaggeration of an element that does exist in the same way Midsomer murders plays up to every village stereotype but you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere with only that side of life.
And Hathaway is Cambridge educated which gets a similar number of put downs!

@VestaTilley ok, I acknowledge in "real life" in the UK ppl don't go round sneering at each other's lack of education.

And I agree that Morse was much better (although it may be the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia)- and the class difference between Lewis and Morse was played out in a much less cartoonish way.

@Calmdown14 Yes, Hathaway comes in for some "gentle ribbing" (I understand the phrase is) for having studied at Cambridge, but it's nowhere comparable to what Lewis receives for not having studied at all!

Lewis often says things like, "that's the one with the pound of flesh" as its meant sarcastically and he's mocking the people who think that only those with a university education can know anything. They roll their eyes because they get he's baiting them. Both in Morse and Lewis the Oxford dons are portrayed as snobs.
But no, lewis doesn't reflect real life - the murder rate for Oxford University staff of students is nowhere near as high as in the programme, and not all the porters are closet murderers!

I get that people think it's absolutely hilarious that I would think that crime shows are portraying real life in terms of the murder rate, and I am glad to provide some entertainment , but I really don't think that, and that is not the point I am making.

Nah, interactions are not based on real life, either in Downton Abbey or Morse. They are there to support the plot and build characters. I have never heard anyone in Britain mocking someone's education except in the 'ooo, get you!' kind of way if you use a long word or technical term.

@Evangeli. 😂😂😂 That made me laugh.
I know you know the murder rates aren't real. (Who'd live in Midsomer if they were?! ) I was just trying to say that just as the murder rates aren't real neither are the attitudes portrayed!

I don't have a degree and work in a role where everyone expects it. It comes up fairly often, yes.

People don't neg me for being lowbrow now because I'm the boss and they wouldn't dare. I've read more than any of them and they know it. But yes, it comes up. It affects your career and how people treat you. It's not the end of the world or anything, but it's real.

Education and a university degree are not the same thing. In fact many people with PhD’s know everything about their subject and very little about anything else. And are also incapable of critical thinking.

Degrees mean fuck all.

I say this as someone with a first from an elite university. The number of my classmates who were incapable of basic reasoning outside of exams did my head in. Also the number of computer science graduates who can’t program while I sail past them with my arts degrees.

*degree