Did Stephen Nolan go where nobody has dared go before??

[BlueTouchPaper]

That's it, really. I just listened to the podcasts. Everyone should listen. Most women I know are totally unaware that men with penises could be in a changing room near you
Anytime now.

The Nolan report is brilliant and well researched. But had this been a female journalist, it wouldn’t have had the same impact.

Unfortunately men are the only ones taken seriously.

Please stop and think what you’re saying. Did the brave women speaking out for years mean nothing?

@Skeumorph

If this gets moved to Feminism, I’m literally going to spend the next three weeks reporting EVERY SINGLE aibu thread that’s actually about parenting, relationships, schools, stepchildren, legal matters… you name it

Amen!

@bumbleymummy

I read with delight today that the BBC have removed themselves from the clutches of Stonewall and have officially withdrawn from the Stonewall Diversity Scheme.

Have they? Progress I guess!

Yes, and on grounds of membership being at odds with impartiality, not just the 'poor value for money' being used by some orgs.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-quits-stonewall-diversity-scheme-over-impartiality-concerns-xztzfq0nf?shareToken=f1aee03404b151e2c4d94625808f98d1

Brilliant news about the BBC. I’ve followed this debate since 2015. The house of cards is starting to fall down

Thanks Errol. That’s good to see.

Hmmm - Nolan says a lot of feminists feel unsafe in mixed toilets and transwomen shouldn’t be competing against women in sports … I think it goes further than just those identifying as feminists…

Great link I hadn’t come across this on bbc sounds.

Government is deafening silent on how transrights disproportionately negatively affects women.

@Skeumorph

If this gets moved to Feminism, I’m literally going to spend the next three weeks reporting EVERY SINGLE aibu thread that’s actually about parenting, relationships, schools, stepchildren, legal matters… you name it

Good - shame MN are so selective about what gets hidden away - AIBU is jam packed full of stuff that could be elsewhere but they leave alone because.....well who knows?

@Skeumorph

If this gets moved to Feminism, I’m literally going to spend the next three weeks reporting EVERY SINGLE aibu thread that’s actually about parenting, relationships, schools, stepchildren, legal matters… you name it

This exactly.

This is something that concerns all women and children, girls in particular.

Good - shame MN are so selective about what gets hidden away - AIBU is jam packed full of stuff that could be elsewhere but they leave alone because.....well who knows?

Who knows indeed!

What I do know is that this AIBU is relating to something that is current news and is of interest to a wide range of people.

It no more belongs in its most directly relevant subsection than, for example, the current, tragically very topical thread on dog attacks belongs in The Doghouse.

Or the one that is about soaping dishes belongs in Housekeeping, or the one with nearly 400 replies on how often you deep clean your house should be in there either...

Or the one on sleep training a toddler should be in, um, Sleep...

I could go on.

And I most certainly will if I need to, I'd suggest others start doing the same :)

Clear bias.

Is it to allow people to ‘hide’ certain topics that they find upsetting/controversial? Coronavirus posts all ultimately get moved to the coronavirus board too.

OP your post reads like the same kind of mad satire Chris Morris used to do

YABU along with the 85% of other brainwashed, groomed, recruited mn'ers in this mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

Most women I know are totally unaware that men with penises could be in a changing room near you
Anytime now.

That's always been the case though. There are no laws which prevent someone from using whichever facilities they feel most comfortable with. This is what I don't get about all this outrage, this is already happening and has done for decades. It's in the news now which might make people think it's a new thing, but it's not. OK you might not like it, fair enough, but to say most people are unaware shows how oblivious they must have been and how few problems (if any) have occurred over the last few decades.

@JulesRimetStillGleaming

No - some of us have been literally saying all this stuff for years. But he did it publicly and he challenged his employer PLUS he's a man which helps a lot if you want to be listened to and taken seriously.

He's also not the first man to raise his head above the parapet...Graham Lineham has been a very vocal supporter of women's rights, with consequences to his personal life and employment - but Nolan does appear to be the first person to successfully raise this as something that needs a spotlight shone on it, with their employer and not lose their job or be dragged to court.

Given what's at stake, I'll accept with grudging grace that I'm happy Nolan appears to be making waves where courageous women have been vilified and threatened. Each step into the light and scrutiny of wider society the better.

Then maybe we can have sensible discussions about how to ensure those who need to transition can be supported through that with grace, dignity and safety whilst women and girls don't lose basic sex based protections against predatory men who manipulate liberalism to their advantage.

And another thing. You use the term "men with penises". This term makes no sense. Either you are saying you are happy for women with penises to be in the changing room (implying you are happy for male-to-female transitioners to be there) or you are denying that transwomen are "real" women and are still men, in which case you don't need to say "men with penises" any more than "women with vaginas" (you say "Most women I know" in the same sentence) - they're just plain "men" (who as I said in previous post, have been usung female facilities for years without widespread issue).

@HarrietsChariot

*Most women I know are totally unaware that men with penises could be in a changing room near you Anytime now.*

That's always been the case though. There are no laws which prevent someone from using whichever facilities they feel most comfortable with. This is what I don't get about all this outrage, this is already happening and has done for decades. It's in the news now which might make people think it's a new thing, but it's not. OK you might not like it, fair enough, but to say most people are unaware shows how oblivious they must have been and how few problems (if any) have occurred over the last few decades.

The single sex exemptions in the equality act mean that facilities are single sex.

The buildings regulation act means school toilets must be single sex.

So yeah there are laws.

@lubeybooby

OP your post reads like the same kind of mad satire Chris Morris used to do

YABU along with the 85% of other brainwashed, groomed, recruited mn'ers in this mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

What exactly is transphobic in the OP's post?

The Nolan Podcast is in the best tradition of the BBC - it's information.

@BloodinGutters

Em, actually you’ll find the feminism boards here were ‘going there’ well over a decade now. Many of the posters we owe that to were banned by MN for questioning what Nolan did.

Many women have ‘gone there’ publicly on Twitter or You Tube like magdelana, or MSM journalists gave done opinion pieces on this for 5yrs+ like Janice Turner, or politicians like liz truss and baroness Nicholson have been ‘going there’ for a long time, as have organisations like transgender trend or safe schools alliance of lgb alliance or sex matters have all ‘been going there’ and then there’s the women whose lives are threatened and jobs are ruined by ‘going there’ like Kathleen Stock or Maya Forstarter or Keira Bell and others who have been ‘going there’ publicly and through the courts for years.

YANBU to think it’s an incredible and timely podcast, but you would be unreasonable to think his piece of work sprang up from a vacuum.

Agree - and it’s funny, isn’t it, that despite women talking and writing about this for years, it starts making waves when a podcast is released about it by men.

So whilst it’s very welcome, they are hardly going where no one has gone before. (Maybe where (almost) no man has gone before…)

@lubeybooby

OP your post reads like the same kind of mad satire Chris Morris used to do

YABU along with the 85% of other brainwashed, groomed, recruited mn'ers in this mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

So yeah, it doesn't.

@lubeybooby

OP your post reads like the same kind of mad satire Chris Morris used to do

YABU along with the 85% of other brainwashed, groomed, recruited mn'ers in this mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

We're living in a Chris Morris world where businesses are paying an organisation to assess them for an award scheme that the organisation judges.

@lubeybooby

I’d like to know how being frightened of men in women’s changing rooms and toilets means I’ve been brainwashed…?

Anyone who has felt disempowered by a man. So yep, that’s almost every woman in the world.

I’m happy for anyone to present themselves as they see fit and not be attacked or persecuted for it. But NOT and NEVER at the cost of girls’ and women’s safety.

After listening to some of the podcast I’ve realised that my child’s school is a STONEWALL SCHOOL. I’m now very concerned to know wtf this means for my girls and others at that school.

[quote FeminismTippingPoint]@lubeybooby

I’d like to know how being frightened of men in women’s changing rooms and toilets means I’ve been brainwashed…?

Anyone who has felt disempowered by a man. So yep, that’s almost every woman in the world.

I’m happy for anyone to present themselves as they see fit and not be attacked or persecuted for it. But NOT and NEVER at the cost of girls’ and women’s safety.

After listening to some of the podcast I’ve realised that my child’s school is a STONEWALL SCHOOL. I’m now very concerned to know wtf this means for my girls and others at that school.[/quote]
Challenge them.

There’s lots of resources on ssa & tt to take to them.

Schools have a legal responsibility under the public sector equality duty to not prioritise one proctored characteristic over another.

As them for the equality impact assessment they did that showed they needed to prioritise Swindon thousands on stonewall over spending to help children who are disabled or are religious or are girls.

For what it’s worth one of my kids is to a sw school but the policies clearly aren’t stonewalled. I told them I will be complaining about school funding sw. the education act says schools must remain politically neutral, paying a partisan lobby group is breaking that law. If you go through schools policies you might find there’s others that need challenging. So challenge them. Remind schools ofsted left stonewall this year because they can’t be neutral if paying a lobby group that threatened them- take the article in.

Take action, that’s the only way it changes. All the laws and dofe policies are on our side, we just have to make schools follow them.

YABU along with the 85% of other brainwashed, groomed, recruited mn'ers in this mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

Let me just get this straight

You think this place is a mad transphobic echo chamber of hate and fear

And you want to be here

See….I reckon there are internet forums for racist people and homophobic people (and actual transphobic people) and incels and ISIS, and do you know what…I don’t go on there, I don’t want to give them the traffic, ive no interest in reading anything they have to say

But you give mumsnet the traffic, you enable them to get advertising etc

You are doing EXACTLY the same thing that the ‘85%’ are doing

Janice Raymond wrote a book about this in the 1970s. Women were talking and campaigning about this since then. Most of the UK women centres had big debates about this in the eighties.
I was just as annoyed when Graham Lineup stated that people had been campaigning on this only since he was involved.

Thanks for that link