To email ex about uni fees?

[coffeerevelsrock]

Two dc ages 14 and 12. I am a teacher and was the higher earner. Since we split 7 years ago I have bought ex out of the house (£14k ish) and have to pay him another £10 k when ds2 is 21. He has the dc 4 nights a fortnight - a bit more in the holidays but also misses quite a few Saturday nights across the year. He pays about £130 per month as he's on a low income and that has only been for the last 18 months or so. He buys nothing else, though he does pay for d1's sport club fees (quite cheap and only half the year.)

He inherited from his dad earlier this year. I don't know the full amount but he has been able to buy a house outright for £180k. As the dc get older I am increasingly anxious about uni costs. I'm on my own on an income of about £48k. I do okay but with two teens and the cost of living going up I'm not saving loads every month. I also had to pay off quite a bit of debt when ex left. Last year I inherited £30k and have £25k of that put away (did some much needed home improvements with the rest). Ds1 is looking at expensive universities (Oxbridge/London) and from what his teachers are saying it's not at all out of the question, which is great apart from financially!

But with dc and life in general getting more expensive, I don't think I can save what is needed for uni and the £10k I need to give ex in the 9 years I've got left - or not without being quite frugal anyway. I'm conscious of wanting to make the most of the time I have with my dc in terms of holidays and don't really want to save every spare penny. I don't know, I just feel this hanging over me and it's uncomfortable.

Would IBU to email and see what he says. He has zero financial sense and has pissed so much money up the wall over the years. He also massively resents having to pay me anything as I earn more than him (because I'm not workshy) and doesn't really seem to see that he has a financial responsibility to his kids. So in a way I don't see the point, but then why should I be the only one having to think about this stuff? I just feel with such a large inheritance he should have thought about his kids and perhaps he has, in which case I should know as it would be a relief and would give me a realistic idea of our situation. He has told the kids he intends to move abroad when they leave home so I imagine he has bought the house as a way of keeping his money safe (I can't imagine his inheritance would have been much more than the house cost) and he'll then cash it in to go abroad. If he does that while the dc are in uni, a relatively small amount could go to their costs. AIBU to bring it up?

Agree with @MatildaJayne unless he is actually going to oxbridge I would tell him to look at universities in the north and midlands. I’ve had this conversation with my dc, there needs to be some realisation about how expensive things are and London is not a realistic option for us.

One way might be to tell him youve been researching and it looks like youll both have to contribute x amount towards tuition fees as they wont al be covered by a loan

Tuition fees are covered by a non-contributory loan for everyone, so this is a complete lie and Ops ex would be able to confirm that with a quick google.

It is the maintenance loan that needs Ops contribution. As pp said, she can estimate how much she would be contributing at today’s rates from the govt calculators.

However, her DC need to be realistic in their choices, looking at Northern unis with lower costs rather than London, and working in holidays (Oxbridge have a very long summer holiday!) or even have a gap year to build up funds before they go.

Echo what other posters have said that a loan will cover most of it and that you will need to top up 3 or 4K per year. You code emailing your ex but it sounds unlikely that he’ll stump up. Twat! Why are some men like this? They’re his kids too!

I would advise what we have done with our DC - try to dissuade them from going to London. It’s so expensive to live there, there’s plenty of good universities outside London, and if they really want to live there they can do so after graduating, when they’re paying!

Do make sure your children look at a range of options including apprenticeships, they are not what they once were. I have a student who is doing an apprenticeship in law, and her degree is paid for as part of the apprenticeship.

My DH had parents who were as thoughtful as yiu. They didn’t pay uni fees what they did was pay living costs. So they paid accommodation (few
Grand a year) and then a set amount a week that covered food and going out. He hated it at the time, because he couldn’t blow silly money but is so grateful now cause his debts are virtually nonexistent.

Finally, if you can have your children contribute to their own savings- if they have a job agree a portion that will go towards it. I had a mate who got full loan and grant at uni. His mum used to take it off him and give him a small amount each week. He hated it, until he graduated and she’d
Saved him over 5000 of it, which paid for his PGCE.

I would certainly ask your ex for support but there are many options.

By then he may well be the resident parent- if he earns nothing they will get full loans.

@coffeerevelsrock

Sorry, FallonCarrington (wow, blast from the past!) I completely jumped to the wrong conclusion there. Thank you for your supportive words. .

OP there is a new version of Dynasty now, DD15 watches it! (sorry just gone off on a tangent!)

@coffeerevelsrock

Should have added that some of the universities ds1 is looking at don't allow part time jobs. Obviously, they may not be where he ends up going but it's an added concern.

That is not true. Universities cannot dictate this. As long as you’re turning up to lectures and completing assignments on time, they don’t care if you work evenings/weekends etc. He could also work whilst he’s in sixth form to save money before university. You also don’t know how much your Ds will get as a maintenance loan. Anyway, your ds hasn't even started his GCSEs yet so not to worry.

@MangoIce it was certainly the case at Oxbridge when I was there (albeit more years ago than I care to admit so might not be up to date!). Was to do with the very short terms, intense workload and long vacs as I recall, and the very significantly subsidised college living.

I am in a pretty similar situation to you OP - similar income, savings gone after horrible divorce, bought ex out of the family home (clean break so I have a mortgage).

I think it would be healthier for you to assume you're going to be supporting your kids through uni.

My older son is at uni now. He used my salary for his maintenance loan. Guidelines say they should use the details of 'the parent they normally live with'.
I did need to top up, but with another dependent at home it wasn't a great deal and entirely manageable.

I keep out of DS1's relationship with his Dad.

DS's will have a lot of debt, but that's normal for many (most?) students these days.

When it becomes relevant your child will be 18 (or almost)...so it is more a question of will he directly contribute to his child's living costs not to you.
I hate to say it, but this is a question your child needs to ask of him when they are older, saying that things are tight and is he able to contribute. If he is able to say no to his child asking for a contribution towards uni then he is an asshole

If they do end up at Oxbridge - it’s true you’re not supposed to have a job in term time, but the terms are MUCH shorter than other universities (8 weeks rather than 12 usually). So I would always be home before other students and found it easier to land a job as I was there first and could commit to a bit longer than most people.

From my experience, the Oxbridge colleges are very keen to ensure that costs were not a barrier to someone who deserved a place, so there are lots of support options in place. They differ a bit between colleges, so if your DS goes for it, worth looking into that when choosing which college to go for (you apply directly to a college rather than the uni itself).

@19lottie82

I see your point but don’t stress yourself out about “uni costs”, most kids get a loan and a part time job.

My daughter had both and worked full time during the holidays. It still wasn't enough to cover rent and food, let alone any extras. Most parents are expected by the government and required by circumstances to financially contribute to the costs of their children being at uni.

Another good thing is your children are young enough to get part time jobs whilst at school and start saving before they even go to uni.

I would reiterate if Oxbridge then that is actually the cheapest way to go to uni.

No point lying about tuition fees. Everyone knows and it is clear from all literature and online that loans cover tuition in full. As regards maintenance they will get what your taxable.income allows them to get. Others who get more get more because their parental income is lower.

The terms of your divorce were agreed at the time of divorce so there is no point fretting now that he has inherited some money. It was agreed or deemed fair by the court then. Yes its a pain he pays so little CMS, yes it will irk handing over more cash when you have to. But that is what it is.

Lots of kids will go to uni on far less than what yours will and I know that doesn't make you feel any better. But there is plenty of time but they will be able to work and help fund it. Just have proper open discussions with them.

OP it's a bit of a myth that some universities (oxbridge) don't allow part time jobs. I wouldn't worry about that bit at all.

For some courses Uni's do advise that you may not be able to work part time - medicine is one where it can be diffcult after the first year to fit in a term time job. They can work in the summer holidays.

It seems wrong for all the top up living costs to fall on you - so yes, I definitely talk to your ex about going halves in topping up the loans and making him aware at this early stage that money will be needed in the future.

If you get really worried about having funds you could work in the summer holidays if you don't have too much prep to do for the next year. I used to teach on short courses in prisons, international student summer schools, tutoring on a Sunday or grade exams and sometimes I'd do something like bar work or waitressing (made loads in tips) when we were trying to build up a house deposit.

The amount of top up that your children will need is based on the resident parent's income, and is the bill of the resident parent to pay. Obviously, the non-resident parent also has a moral responsibility to pay for their children, but that does not reduce the amount that the resident parent has to pay, as the calculation is made based on the resident parents income only. The non resident parent should give any contribution they make directly to the young adult, and this should be over and above the standard top up from the resident parent's household.

The good news is, that since the parental contribution is means tested, it is affordable for the household whose income it is based on. That is the whole point of means testing. The calculation can only be done on the resident parent's income, to use the NRPs income instead to get a higher loan would be fraudulent (and would just saddle your children with more debt).

I really despair of the number of threads on here from people who don't want to pay the means tested (and therefore affordable) parental contribution that they are liable for!

@mrsm43s I wouldn’t say it’s affordable just because it’s means tested.

To “bridge the gap”, assuming a 10 month Uni year OP effectively has to commit to £350/month for 3 years to “top up” her DS. For her 2 DC that’s then £700/month! Not exactly easy to swallow.

Having said that; I fully believe that instead of OP covering it; this is easily gained by her DC getting a part time job - either working like mad over the summer or picking up something during term time.

[quote Dyrne]@mrsm43s I wouldn’t say it’s affordable just because it’s means tested.

To “bridge the gap”, assuming a 10 month Uni year OP effectively has to commit to £350/month for 3 years to “top up” her DS. For her 2 DC that’s then £700/month! Not exactly easy to swallow.

Having said that; I fully believe that instead of OP covering it; this is easily gained by her DC getting a part time job - either working like mad over the summer or picking up something during term time.[/quote]
OP already has enough saved to cover both dc's uni costs...

I have friends who went to Oxbridge and PT working was impossible but they worked all summer - they have longer summers than a lot of standard universities in the UK - to make money to help support them throughout the year. Most working-class people I know who went did this, and I worked with some of them in the summer time. I was not supported throughout university, nor was my sibling, and we were fine. Just worked part-time, had an overdraft, paid it off once we left and got jobs.

[quote Dyrne]@mrsm43s I wouldn’t say it’s affordable just because it’s means tested.

To “bridge the gap”, assuming a 10 month Uni year OP effectively has to commit to £350/month for 3 years to “top up” her DS. For her 2 DC that’s then £700/month! Not exactly easy to swallow.

Having said that; I fully believe that instead of OP covering it; this is easily gained by her DC getting a part time job - either working like mad over the summer or picking up something during term time.[/quote]
But her income must be sufficient to do that - that's the whole point of means testing. They make a calculation based on the amount of spare money that a household will have given their income and based on average lifestyle, and calculate the household parental contribution based on that. It would only be unaffordable if the household was prioritising spending more money than average on their own lifestyles (e.g. new cars, expensive holidays, bigger than needed houses, expensive social life) over and above contributing to supporting their child at Uni. I would like to think that most families would prioritise their children over their lifestyle, but so many threads on here from people simply not prepared to pay their contribution. It's very sad.

But in any case OP has already said she has sufficient savings to cover it, even before she uses any of her spare income. Remember her bills will drop quite significantly when she has no children at home for weeks of the year - no food to buy/no sports clubs/music lessons etc to pay for/no driving lessons to pay for/no school dinners to pay for etc etc.

@mrsm43s Depends where you live really doesn’t it? Mortgage for a 3 bed semi (so nothing fancy or “bigger than needed”) in the South East could eat up half of OP’s take home alone. Add on £500 for food and bills and that leaves less than £700 left over.

Not saying someone on £48K is skint by any means but it also doesn’t necessarily mean they’re prioritising trips to the Maldives over their own children…

Yes, I'm not skint, but £700 per month is a scary amount to me and, more importantly, the means testing doesn't properly account for outgoings. For instance, I had to buy ex out, which raised my mortgage meaning my monthly payments are more than they would have been, and I'm having to save this extra £10k as well. None of that nor any other outside the average but essential outgoings I may have will be considered.

Also, mrsm432, I'm not sure I agree with this:

The amount of top up that your children will need is based on the resident parent's income, and is the bill of the resident parent to pay. Obviously, the non-resident parent also has a moral responsibility to pay for their children, but that does not reduce the amount that the resident parent has to pay, as the calculation is made based on the resident parents income only. The non resident parent should give any contribution they make directly to the young adult, and this should be over and above the standard top up from the resident parent's household.

Surely the reason they don't take both households into account is because it would simply be too complicated. I agree that nrps should give contributions directly to the child of course, but you seem to be implying that if he stepped up and gave them a decent amount I should still pay whatever the calculation is as otherwise I would be cheating (who - the dc? the state?). I don't see the logic in that. The dc need what they need - why would they need massive amounts while I struggled/went without? I want them to have plenty of course, but I don't see it as a bill to pay. It's both our responsibility as parents to ensure they have what they need and are supported, not me having to pay a bill like a kind of fine for being the rp! I've already had that for years with him paying no CM then a minimum amount.

I think you're being glib saying luckily it's all affordable - plenty here are already in the situation and have said it's not.

And do you also despair at all the NRPs who pay no or limited CM?

You have the money saved though already...?

I have money saved (well, not saved, it's an inheritance) yes, but I'm not completely sure that it will cover everything including the £10k and, even if it does, it leaves me with no safety net at all. Maybe not and my income will go up a little and things will be okay. I don't know - I get anxious about money being on my own and it seems unfair that ex gets to pay nothing, worry about nothing and keep a huge inheritance all to himself (he's likely to get another one too) while I get to pay for everything, worry about everything and give one third of a modest (but very much appreciated) inheritance to him.

But I know I'm being ridiculous and need to just accept it and I will do. I think these threads just help me work through it all in my head and I'm grateful for all the advice .

So I think on a basic look you'd be talking about around £3,200 coming off the max maintenance loan. So left with 9.2k in London and 6.3k outside London.

I've just done some budgeting guidance for a Cambridge college. With an income like yours they'd get about £1,200 - £1,500 in grant monies at Cam.

So around £7.5k if they get in, possibly more if student finance do a deduction for having u18s at home.

On the budgeting I worked out (based on a median room rent over 30 rather than 40 weeks which is permitted at Cambridge generally but does vary by college so worth checking this), you can live reasonably comfortably on about 8k per year, assuming you get a holiday job e.g. in a pub that funds their holidays.

That means that you'd only need to put in around £500 per year, and if you funding £1500 I think they'd be pretty comfortable. It might be a different scenario in London though, I just don't know.

Cambridge is different from Oxford in that you live in all 3 years so shouldn't ever have to pay 52 week's worth of rent. Richer Cambridge and Oxford colleges tend to also offer more support and/or lower rents so worth taking that into account when looking.