To think Dumbledore was a massive cheater?

[Slytherine]

Just finished watching the first Harry Potter film on TV and forgot about the injustice for the Slytherins at the end. I have changed my name in solidarity.

So the Slytherins get the most House Points (presumably fairly as most of the professors at Hogwarts could barely hide their disdain for Slytherin House so wouldn’t have been dishing out points to them for no reason) and are sat there enjoying their win of the House Cup, and celebrating with the room decorated in their House colours, and then former Gryffindor Dumbledore just decides (even though the school year was officially over!!) to throw out an unreasonable amount of points to Harry, Hermione and Ron drawing them level with Slytherin, and then a further 10 points to Neville pushing Gryffindor over the edge and into the win. And then, just to rub salt into the wound, publicly humiliated them by casting a spell to replace all the Slytherin colours with the Gryffindor colours and gives them the award instead and they all celebrate, including him and most of the teachers, and Slytherin has to sit there and just accept it??

AIBU to think WTAF and that was very unfair and he was biased by doing this and it’s no wonder the Slytherins were openly hostile and dismissive of him after that!? I’d be fuming if I were a Slytherin student and if I were a parent of a Slytherin student I’d be marching up to the school myself and having a word with the head.

Maybe Slytherin didn't come back and fight because they remembered that dumbledore stole the house cup off them in the first year?

@whosaidtha I think it’s mentioned that almost all wizarding children are home schooled until they go to hogwarts, so that would have been a big job when she had 5 of them at home. (What’s the age gap between Ginny and the older boys, would she ever have had 6 or 7 at home at once? Homeschooling the 5 older ones with toddler Ron and baby Ginny there as well?)
But after that I don’t know how she filled her days. Housework is quick with magic, they don’t seem to have tv just radio, even the knitting that she does can be done by charming the needles and leaving them to knit themselves. How isn’t she bored?

@SouthsideSally

See.... I don't get all the Hermione love. I found her sanctimonious and judgemental. She treated Luna badly.

The way that Luna is portrayed and treated by the others really upsets me. She is not nasty at all afaik and at some points has really important knowledge.

I also don't know why H keeps being sent home to the Dursley's in the early books when the teachers and the Weasleys know that he is being abused at home.

It's because the blood magic that protects him (through Petunia) only works as long as Harry can call her house his home. It's explained in the books that he has to spend at least two weeks (I think it was two!) living there with her for it to stay in effect.

I think the money Harry gave to Fred and George was wizard money not muggle money. It was stored at Gringotts.

@Snoopsnoggysnog

I think the money Harry gave to Fred and George was wizard money not muggle money. It was stored at Gringotts.

Yes sorry, I meant I have no idea how much what he gave them was worth. Was it the equivalent of giving them £1,000, or £50,000.

[quote WithANameLikeDaniCalifornia]@Glassofshloer Mama Weasley and her polyjuice potion pyramid scheme is the subplot I didn’t know I needed until now.[/quote]
Say that fast 3 times .

Dumbledore manipulated everyone around him. He might have been one of the most powerful wizards of all time, but he wasn't a very nice man.

And Harry Potter was a brat.

Severus Snape was the best character, and that's my hill to die on. People dislike him because they read the books through the viewpoint of a bratty adolescent boy and don't read around what Harry is saying.

He was bullied at school, at home, fell in with the wrong crowd, tried desperately to make amends at a huge personal cost, and rather than receiving redemption, was forced by Dumbledore the Twat to be his personal whipping boy for decades, whilst being the same for Tom Riddle. Tom, incidentally, being yet another pupil Dumbledore had failed.

I think the books would have been very short, had there been a Wizarding Ofstead and they paid Dumbledore a visit earlier in his career. Man would have been struck off, and there would never have been a Dark Lord and a Magical War.

@whosaidtha

I'm a big molly fan but she should have gotten a job. Potentially if she's home schooling the youngest (how else do they learn to read or write?) but once Ginny starts school it's just her and Arthur for all the year. The kids are away. It's selfish not to because they are so poor. And cleaning only takes so long. She seems like an accomplished witch taking on belatrix so she should have been able to get a part time job at least.

Having seen Molly Weasley's life, it made zero sense to me that Hermione married Ron, and even less to sense to me that in the playtext when everyone's kids go to school, Hermione hadn't yet divorced Ron.

I mean, surely Hermione and Ron embody the example of the typical first relationship/young love that never lasts because both parties are fundamentally incompatible?

Severus Snape was the best character, and that's my hill to die on. People dislike him because they read the books through the viewpoint of a bratty adolescent boy and don't read around what Harry is saying.

There is no excuse for the way Snape treats the students in his care, especially quiet, unchallenging ones like Neville. The way he treats Potter is nothing to do with whether Potter is bratty or not. Malfoy is bratty and Snape doesn't treat him that way. It's all because of the fact that Harry reminds Snape of the man who married the woman Snape was creepily obsesed with. Dumbledore should have employed Snape in some kind of non-teaching position at Hogwarts if he had to have him there.

Severus Snape was the best character, and that's my hill to die on. People dislike him because they read the books through the viewpoint of a bratty adolescent boy and don't read around what Harry is saying.

But there are numerous instances of him bullying and picking on Harry purely because he's James' son. And he picks on Neville for no reason whatsoever. That's nothing to do with Harry's viewpoint, you can see it objectively from the facts as recounted. He's a very bad teacher.

The people saying about Harry being left in an abusive household as a child, it HAD to be that way, otherwise he would have been killed. He was only safe there outside of Hogwarts, because his mum died saving his life, hence creating a powerful protective magic over him if he was with her family, who unfortunately weren't as nice, but it was the only way to keep him safe until he could attend Hogwarts.

@whosaidtha

I'm a big molly fan but she should have gotten a job. Potentially if she's home schooling the youngest (how else do they learn to read or write?) but once Ginny starts school it's just her and Arthur for all the year. The kids are away. It's selfish not to because they are so poor. And cleaning only takes so long. She seems like an accomplished witch taking on belatrix so she should have been able to get a part time job at least.

Maybe she couldn't find a job that would give her the holidays off.

@SickAndTiredAgain

And Fred and George left school, likely “asked to leave” after assaulting the stand-in headmistress with magical explosives, and managed to raise capital

It’s better than being asked to leave, they said “we’ve had enough of Umbridge’s shit, we’re out of here!”

But they didn’t raise the capital, Harry gave it to them. Or at least, a large chunk, I’m not sure on the wizard/muggle money exchange rate.

I’d forgotten about Harry giving them money. But still, to be successful business owners in Diagon Alley a year after leaving school is pretty dynamic.

And I don’t blame Molly Weasley for not getting a job after home schooling 7 children. Put your feet up and drink gin all day, I say.

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

I think some of the Slytherins did come back in the battle at the end — I'm sure Slughorn did (he's a good example of a different type of Slytherin).

Jumping back to the bit about Sirius and no trial, at that point people weren't trusting at all — there'd been a lot less contact than usual between families, people had been under the Imperius curse, attacks were happening all over the place. People thought that Crouch's hardline approach to suspected Death Eaters was right.

I don't know why Sirius didn't tell Fudge he was innocent when he visited Azkaban and explain they were animagi (although out of universe it would have messed the plot up!).

I always wondered why anyone in the wizarding world needs a trial - nobody innocent should be in wizard jail because they literally have a potion that once you take it you can not lie at all.

Sirius could have just said I’m not a death eater whip me up some truth juice and I’ll prove it.

I'm sort of surprised, with Arthur being such a big Maggie fan, he didn't send the kids to the local primary school!

@lazylinguist

Severus Snape was the best character, and that's my hill to die on. People dislike him because they read the books through the viewpoint of a bratty adolescent boy and don't read around what Harry is saying.

There is no excuse for the way Snape treats the students in his care, especially quiet, unchallenging ones like Neville. The way he treats Potter is nothing to do with whether Potter is bratty or not. Malfoy is bratty and Snape doesn't treat him that way. It's all because of the fact that Harry reminds Snape of the man who married the woman Snape was creepily obsesed with. Dumbledore should have employed Snape in some kind of non-teaching position at Hogwarts if he had to have him there.

He's a spy, playing the role of someone who hates Harry Potter for his role in Voldemort's downfall, of course he has to come across as the big bad in class. And of course he has to be outwardly nice to Draco Malfoy as the son of an inner-circle Death Eater.

I imagine Snape on some level cares for Draco, regardless of whether he likes him, because he's had the experience of trying to make it as a young Slytherin, with all of the other houses automatically hating him. But I think he genuinely cares for all of the school children, including bratty Harry and co.

For all that Snape says, he always makes sure the children are physically safe.

Example - Snape secretly does a spell to keep Harry safe, Hermione sets his robes on fire. Harry and his friends only take Snape at face value and don't realise how much he's worked behind the scenes to protect them. It's only possible by coming across as a jerk.

You might argue that emotional abuse is unacceptable, but having witnessed the physical abuse that Snape will have seen as a Death Eater, and the physically torture he is doubtlessly subject to personally, I'd argue it's a small sacrifice and the ends justify the means. The ends being as many children making it to adulthood as possible.

There's a brilliant portrayal in the films of McGonagall going all Mama Bear on Snape and trying to take him down - if you watch very carefully, Snape always deliberately misses his shots to not hurt her or anyone else innocent.

I really can't imagine how lonely or difficult it must have felt to be him. At that moment, he was doing the right thing for the right reasons, but pretty much everyone he knew thought he was the devil.

Which takes me back to my original point of Dumbledore being a twat. Getting Snape to play that role when all he wanted was to repent for what he had done, was just the most horrific example of emotional manipulation.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

I'm sort of surprised, with Arthur being such a big Maggie fan, he didn't send the kids to the local primary school!

I mean Muggle fan. My spellchecker is definitely muggle...

@Platax

Severus Snape was the best character, and that's my hill to die on. People dislike him because they read the books through the viewpoint of a bratty adolescent boy and don't read around what Harry is saying.

But there are numerous instances of him bullying and picking on Harry purely because he's James' son. And he picks on Neville for no reason whatsoever. That's nothing to do with Harry's viewpoint, you can see it objectively from the facts as recounted. He's a very bad teacher.

Harry's view is without the knowledge that Snape is a spy, playing a role.

He may be outwardly mean to Harry, but he teaches Harry how to be a better wizard, and he always, always keeps him safe. He does what he can without the constraints of his spy role.

Agree Dumbledore is a bit of a dick. Always disappearing or being uncommunicative when Harry needs him. Withholding information all the time.
I love Alan Rickman so much that this colours how I see Snape in the films.

For all that Snape says, he always makes sure the children are physically safe.

I know it’s in the film, and I can’t remember if it’s described like this in the book but there’s a bit in the third film where they’ve found Sirius, they’ve come out from the tunnel, and Lupin has transformed into a werewolf. When Snape sees this, he stands in front of Harry, Ron and Hermione, throwing his arms out and back to herd them in behind him.
And in the bit you describe where he doesn’t hit McGonagall with his spells, if you watch closely in the film, he actually also deflects McGonagall’s spells directly onto the two death eaters behind him, knocking them out.

He may be outwardly mean to Harry, but he teaches Harry how to be a better wizard

No he doesn't. He's not just abusive and unpleasant, he's also a shit teacher. His 'attempt' at teaching Harry occlumency is a particular low-point. He rarely or never gives Harry constructive criticism, he just insults him. It's ridiculous to claim that he's mean to Harry because he has to be seen to be horrible to him in order to play his role. Even when Snape is talking to Dumbledore alone, he's rude about Harry. There is nothing whatsoever to suggest that Snape's treatment of Harry or the many other students he bullies is anything but his normal modus operandi - nastiness based on his personality and personal prejudices. Sure, he had a shit home life as a child,but so did Harry!

For all that Snape says, he always makes sure the children are physically safe.

Pretty low bar for a teacher, that. I'll make sure I remember that as long as I don't let my students be eaten by werewolves I'm doing a grand job!

He keeps them physically safe but that’s like the bare minimum. He could do all that without bullying kids to be honest - and it isn’t part of his ‘cover’ because he bullies specific children. He doesn’t, for example, bully Parvati. He bullies Neville, who is already a nervous wreck.

Even as a teen/kid he was pretty horrible, dropping branches on Petunia’s head and taunting muggle borns then acting confused that Lily might be offended by that. You can enjoy the character and everything but he’s unpleasant.

@lazylinguist

For all that Snape says, he always makes sure the children are physically safe.

Pretty low bar for a teacher, that. I'll make sure I remember that as long as I don't let my students be eaten by werewolves I'm doing a grand job!

You have to remember, it's keeping them safe during wartime, when some of the kids are prime enemy targets. Bit different to normal teaching!

The fact that Harry didn't die in book one is a testament to how hard the adults around him (including Snape) are working to keep him alive.