Friends being exclusive and not inclusive

[Mustbethreecharactersormore]

Sorry name changed for this in case any “friends” this relates to are on mumsnet. I have a friendship group of four mums from school, we all have children in the same years. Same interests and until this week, I thought we were close. Anyway friend A and B organised to hang out together on an inset day (friend C working), didn’t extend the invite when I asked them what they were doing. They then had a change of plan and ended up coming to the activity I had planned and then left together to have lunch with their DCs and no further invite. All felt a bit awkward. I was really hurt and upset not only for my DC but it just made me feel like why would grown women who I consider to be close friends feel comfortable with excluding someone 🥴. My DC plays well with the others, so it’s definitely not the fact the children don’t get on. Just can’t stop feeling shit about it.

I raised it with one of the friends as in, have I done anything to offend other friend? she said the other one just likes 1-2-1 play dates. I’m not going to cause any drama over it within the group but would be interested to get your views whether AIBU in terms of it making me feel a bit shit?

It’s a tricky one, I can see why it’s upset you but I also don’t think they did anything wrong.

I had a similar thing with a two friends who always seem to be doing things together and not inviting me. I asked one of them and she said the same, that the other didn’t like big groups and was happier to meet one on one.

I’ve accepted that now and just enjoy seeing them separately. Honestly I’m much happier than I was when I was trying to tag along with them. Neither of them mind me seeing the other without them.

I with @Keladrythesaviour and @Snog— I have different, sometimes overlapping friendship groups that do things in different combinations with no sense of needing to invite everyone. I wouldn’t be upset to find friends were doing something without me.

This has happened to me numerous times and I sympathise with you because it’s not a nice feeling, especially when your dc is also hurt.

Basically it is a harsh lesson in where you stand in the friendship pecking order, unless it’s common for you to all meet up in smaller groups regularly, in which case it wouldn’t bother me as much.

I have one friend who does this to me, but acts all sad and hurt if I arrange something on my own with one of our mutual friends. It’s like she wants to be included in everything, but doesn’t think I should be. I never pull her up on it, because life is too short but I’d love to know her rationale.

If it was just these two friends having a coffee and catch up I wouldn’t expect to always have an invite. Although if for example, I was heading out for coffee with someone and we bumped into someone else we both knew well, I would then always extend the invite to the other person Is that not expected? If so I’ll stop ?!

I have to admit, if I was the original person expecting just the two of us and then you invited a third, I might be annoyed.

@notanothertakeaway

I think when you have good self esteem and confidence, you don't mind so much if people socialise without you

It's never very nice to feel excluded, but the trick is not to take it too personally

I agree with this too. The happier you are the less this will bother you and then weirdly, the less this stuff will happen.

YABU. It’s okay to socialise with just one person, and it’s pretty ridiculous to think that a grown adult is not allowed to see Friend A unless you’re there too. Why can’t you just hang out with everyone sometimes, and they sometimes socialise with you and sometimes not? I just don’t get why an adult would get their knickers in a twist about this, it’s not primary school.

I’m the same as you op - the more the merrier and if I’m out with A and run into B I’ll include them or offer to unless there’s a reason why not. I distance myself from people who seem to get a kick out of exclusivity or exclusion of others.

It doesn't sound as though it was an intentional slight but it didn't come over well - they just weren't brung up right! They'd made plans for the 2 of them and were probably pleased to catch up with you but including you was never on their radar.

I agree with you this is shit. It's actually worse because you are a group of four and one was busy so you were the only one left out. And that your child was so blatantly left out. You would be fair to address it further but it could upset the group dynamic. I'd maybe arrange the odd one to one play date with the other mums and see how you feel about your friendships separately as well as in the group. My OH and I have a friendship group consisting of five couples and over the years the others have become closer in two separate couple groups. We hadn't realised and are now a bit left out. The only time we see them is when all ten of us are free ( which is literally a couple of times a year) but the other two smaller groups meet regularly. It's hard, I've found some people are just pushier at getting what they want from friendships whereas I've always assumed when everyone gets on all is well. Joe things work out.

I can see why it bothers you. But also I don't think they were wrong. There's a larger group, some people are closer than the others or choose to do things in part of a smaller group.

I also don't believe they need to consider you everytime, because your child may felt left out

What you tell your child, is up to you.

Sometimes people want to spend time with certain people and having someone else there changes the dynamic.

I have very different conversations 1-1 than 1-group.
More intimate - might discuss DH's foibles though often just letting off steam. Sex life. Somehow you don't chat about these to a group, or I don't.
But it's understandable you feel left out.
4 person group having equal relationships all round is unlikely imv.

Op,

I'm going to give you a bit of tough love. You sound like a good person who is looking at life from an odd and unhealthy angle, so here goes:

Try to stop seeing this as close friends excluding you, because it isn't. See it as what it really is. It is a couple of casual friends from your 'group' who have started to enjoy each other's company outside the group. If you were invited along, it would no longer be outside the group for them. They are allowed to form their own close relationship. Your permission isn't necessary. People who 'click' aren't obligated to keep a distance from each other for the comfort of friendly acquaintances who don't share their 'click'. How would you feel if you met a lass with whom you had a great rapport and common interests through this social group? Would you feel the need to limit your contact with her to group events only? Would you turn down her offers? Would you say no to her suggestions for fear of leaving someone out? Effectively nipping the friendship in the bud? Or would you say a polite 'bye' to the group sometimes and enjoy a coffee alone together?

They might be foolish to leave you out. You might be the best mate they'll ever have. If you really are, you'll drop the resent and carry on as you were before the resent. Good friends don't feel jealous or resentful over their friends' other friendships.

Furthermore, you must realise that them having a closer relationship doesn't reflect badly on you. It doesn't even mean that they don't like you. It just means they like each other more than anyone else out of the group - including you but not restricted to you.

It's not a rejection or insult. It's just them becoming friends. Their closeness isn't a threat.

Enjoy having a social life! It sounds like you have a good one, and these women are a positive part of it, honestly. You don't need to be everyone's favourite. You don't even need to be anyone's favourite.

Take that pressure off of yourself, OP. Be a good all-rounder. There isn't a more rewarding position.

All the best xx

Of course others are entitled to meet up as and when they want but I think on this occasion they were really shit. Not extending the invitation was cliquey and mean.

As your DC gets older you'll realise that you don't need this crap in your life. I had a similar situation where I was friends with 3 other mums, 2 were really close and would meet up independently of the others. The other didn't drive and after one playgroup session it was heavy rain, I offered her a lift home which she accepted. She was on her phone all the way back and then asked me to drop her at friend 3's house which I thought was odd. When we got there it turned out friend 3 had prepared lunch for the 3 of them! They hadn't bothered inviting me but I was good enough to drive for them.

After this happened again I made a decision to stop being so available. I didn't drink at the time which made it very convenient for them in terms of lifts on nights out. Once I decided to have a drink the invitations became more scarce.

Your DC will begin to make friends in school and you'll be able to facilitate play dates and meet ups which work for them. Please don't put yourself through this, it isn't worth it and the children might not even like each other very much once they get a bit older.

"I was heading out for coffee with someone and we bumped into someone else we both knew well, I would then always extend the invite to the other person Is that not expected? If so I’ll stop ?!"

Yes stop. I wouldn't do that. I'm allowed to go for coffee with 1 friend if I choose.

Of course others are entitled to meet up as and when they want but I think on this occasion they were really shit. Not extending the invitation was cliquey and mean.

So it's OK for them to do it. But not also if they have also seen op the same day? Or is there some other criteria.

Its that sort of thinking that ends up with people distancing themselves from people like the OP.

Its really draining when you have to think of one particular person all the time and invite them to everything or it causes a problem.

People either end up hiding plans (which ends up coming out and ends the friendship) or do it anyway, which also ends the friendship.

If me and my best friend want to go out, we will invite our wider group. If we want a proper catch up or one of us needs some support, we do something just us or just us and the kids. I couldn't be doing with another less close friend assuming, that if me and my best friend do something just together, that ots about excluding them. When it's, actually, not about them at all

"I was heading out for coffee with someone and we bumped into someone else we both knew well, I would then always extend the invite to the other person Is that not expected? If so I’ll stop ?!"

I'd stop doing this as it's disrespectful to the original person you are meeting with. They have agreed to meet with you on a 1:1 basis so it's rude of you to unilaterally change the parameters.

@Mustbethreecharactersormore

Can I just say that completely agree with everyone saying you can’t expect to be invited to everything etc and it’s fine for smaller groups to go off and that’s what we were like as a group, but not at the same event!

If it was just these two friends having a coffee and catch up I wouldn’t expect to always have an invite. Although if for example, I was heading out for coffee with someone and we bumped into someone else we both knew well, I would then always extend the invite to the other person Is that not expected? If so I’ll stop ?!

That’s perfectly civilised behaviour.

Those women were rude

@Snog

I don't have an issue with friends doing stuff with each other without inviting me and neither do I feel the need to be "inclusive" myself.

I'm always surprised that people get upset over this kind of thing.

I agree… in my group of friends people are always arranging things 1-1 I’ve never thought to get upset about it. Even in a close group people’s individual dynamics vary.

I’m in a group of 4 friends with kids same age. We often make plans just 2 of us but we would never do this! If another in our group asked if we were free on a particular day we’d just invite them along too.

I learnt have a few friends. I met a few more through school things. Op it is hurtful. My sisters left me out of flights just booked theirs. I was so hurt. I find grown women can be nasty.

@Silverdorkinghen yep this is the dynamic I thought we had too.

@Silverdorkinghen

I’m in a group of 4 friends with kids same age. We often make plans just 2 of us but we would never do this! If another in our group asked if we were free on a particular day we’d just invite them along too.

I would do this too. And if we were out and bumped into one of the others then we would invite her join us for lunch afterwards. I can’t really understand why it would be an issue if you are all friends, it’s not the same as bringing a stranger into the dynamic which can be awkward.

You can make plans with whoever you want but I don’t know why anyone would actively leave someone out.

It gets worse if one the their children suddenly goes up a year or into a different group. Then you can find yourself dropped altogether. Despite my best efforts the people I met through my children did not become lifelong friends, more acquaintances. I wouldn’t depend on a social life, even if it’s only coffee, from them.

GaryLurcher19

Great advice

@Malibuismysecrethome

It gets worse if one the their children suddenly goes up a year or into a different group. Then you can find yourself dropped altogether. Despite my best efforts the people I met through my children did not become lifelong friends, more acquaintances. I wouldn’t depend on a social life, even if it’s only coffee, from them.

It also gets worse if the children fall out or drift apart.

I’ve had what I thought were really good friends, who I went out with regularly in the evenings (without the kids) and did day trips etc, completely cut me adrift because of some perceived or temporary kiddy friendship issue. That was one of the most surprising and hurtful things in my experience and the reason why, third time around, I don’t get heavily involved with any of 3rd dc’s friend’s parents. Because the parents can be more immature than the kids!