To ask how drivers of massive SUVs square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

[Bleepingtons]

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

You would think no one was ever disabled before SUVs were invented. In reality people have always bought some cars that are much easier to get in and out of.

I am a bit confused about people saying “But what about the big corporations? Surely, they are the biggest culprits.”

These corporations only exist because they meet a demand for products that we, as society, provide. If we stop consuming their products (or lessen our consumption), it would be less of an issue.

“We have 2 large engined petrol SUVs and an electric SUV. Of those vehicles the electric one is by far the least versatile. I try not to buy diesel vehicles where possible as a token effort to reduce particulate pollution.I use a non suv electric car as my daily drive.

We love to travel both long and short haul.

I never buy 'designer' labelled clothing.

I'm not in the least bit concerned about climate change. Part of that position comes from actually reading through these infernal climate change 'catastrophe' reports themselves and not the reporting on what they supposedly say.”

I have a massive distrust of the media but particularly the bbc when it comes to climate change...can you link me to the reports you’ve been reading please??

Why should I live a little miserly life

Firstly, most people who don't own SUVs don't lead "miserly little lives", probably because they don't base their self worth on status symbols.

Secondly - why? Because your life, and everyone else's life, will get "miserly" and "little" when crops fail and resource wars kick in. Its basic self-preservation to push for change, and to embody it.

@Bleepingtons

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

They don't square it, they just don't care, the same with the large, loud engine AMG Mercs, BMW M series cars etc. The same as people discount their own flying, or their large meat consumption, their multiple fashion purchases, the pointless tat they buy, the things they do not recycle because it is too much hassle to rinse something out etc., they do not need to mentally "square it", they just don't care.

Christ so much bloody ableism on this thread.

"You would think no one was disabled before SUVs were invented."
Well yes they were but they probably couldn't get around so easily.

I have a larger diesel car than I would like- not even sure if it's classed as an SUV but having looked for electric or hybrid I couldn't find one that I could fit my mobility scooter in and that was affordable since the bastards at the DWP so kindly decided that I no longer qualified for motability and took away my car.

And no I can't get in and out of a Honda Jazz, and it doesn't fit my scooter in the back. HTH.

I think part of the issue is that the car manufacturers now see the market for cars for people with mobility issues etc as fulfilled by the SUV selection so there's little financial incentive for them to offer alternatives. All I can say honestly is that we tried every different type of estate and a Honda jazz and a Ford BMaxx and Cmaxx (not worried about the keeping up with the Joneses aesthetic) and they weren't the right size and shape - I would have been elated if they were! I just hope that car manufacturers are incentivised to make better, lighter, more efficient, less resource wasteful versions of the existing SUVs for which there is clearly a wide market. I'm not sure I need a sensor, which uses precious raw materials, to tell me that I should check the back seats for a child, which is what they have in the new model fiestas.

I think even if ”most” people buy them for what you consider to be poor reasons, it isn't helpful to throw contempt at everyone assuming they are part of the ”most”.

you don't need an SUV because of mobility issues. For example, a Honda Jazz is easy to get in and out of and has great visibility when driving too. And very comfortable seats. But it doesn't have the status symbol factor...people think it's a granny car.

MIL has a Honda Jazz. It’s too low for me and because it’s so small the doors don’t open wide enough for me to get in and out independently. It would be impossible to get my mobility scooter or wheelchair in it either.

@StevieNicksscarf

Christ so much bloody ableism on this thread.

"You would think no one was disabled before SUVs were invented."
Well yes they were but they probably couldn't get around so easily.

I have a larger diesel car than I would like- not even sure if it's classed as an SUV but having looked for electric or hybrid I couldn't find one that I could fit my mobility scooter in and that was affordable since the bastards at the DWP so kindly decided that I no longer qualified for motability and took away my car.

And no I can't get in and out of a Honda Jazz, and it doesn't fit my scooter in the back. HTH.

You don't need to justify this to anyone on this thread. I can bet they all do something that's bad for the environment.

@Peanutbuttercupisyum

“We have 2 large engined petrol SUVs and an electric SUV. Of those vehicles the electric one is by far the least versatile. I try not to buy diesel vehicles where possible as a token effort to reduce particulate pollution.I use a non suv electric car as my daily drive.

We love to travel both long and short haul.

I never buy 'designer' labelled clothing.

I'm not in the least bit concerned about climate change. Part of that position comes from actually reading through these infernal climate change 'catastrophe' reports themselves and not the reporting on what they supposedly say.”

I have a massive distrust of the media but particularly the bbc when it comes to climate change...can you link me to the reports you’ve been reading please??

I have a massive distrust of the media but particularly the bbc when it comes to climate change...can you link me to the reports you’ve been reading please??

There is not really any point, the science on climate change has been settled for a decade or more, the BBC is a reliable source, as is the UN, the governments of nearly every Western economy, every university, NASA, etc. Even the Chinese agree that climate change is a major issue, they are just being slower about it than the West would like.

You have chosen to discount scientific evidence because it is convenient for you to be a denier (and/or you lack the capacity to understand it), regardless of any information we shared you would continue to deny it. To put that in perspective even Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping don't deny climate change, they just want to change on their terms not ours and they are hardly allies of the West.

On a positive note - car sales are down. Elec car sales tho are up.

Meat sales are down. Fast fashion sales are down. People are aware of the issues and changes are possible.

I think people bought suvs years ago and didn’t really know the issues. Will it be your next purchase? Will you replace your car so often? If you own a car can you use it less? Lift share? Cycle? Steps we can all take.

@StevieNicksscarf yes people transporting mobility scooters need a larger car. But plenty of people are saying they need a SUV because they cant easily get into a normal car, when there have always been acrs that are easier to get into. Nothing to do with disablism. I used to transport my gran in her nineties in an ordinary car that was favoured by older people at the time as easier to get into.
When my FIL could not get into a car any longer he needed a minibus with a wheelchair lift. An SUV wasn't going to do it.
The people who actually need a much bigger car is a tiny group of people. Most people I see driving SUVs are much more agile than I am.

@Newgirls

On a positive note - car sales are down. Elec car sales tho are up.

Meat sales are down. Fast fashion sales are down. People are aware of the issues and changes are possible.

I think people bought suvs years ago and didn’t really know the issues. Will it be your next purchase? Will you replace your car so often? If you own a car can you use it less? Lift share? Cycle? Steps we can all take.

People cant get the new cars to buy. Some cars a year old are selling for more than new cars as a result.

How do you know they are agile? Do people with disabilities who are driving have a special "look" . Most people wouldn't judge me as having a disability as witnessed by some of the looks I get when I pull into a blue badge space. You have no idea how much pain or fatigue people are experiencing when they get in and out of a car. In theory I can just about get in and out of DH's car, with help. In reality it causes me significant discomfort and pain.

@FinallyFluid

I damn near died six years ago, won't bore you with the back story but I was in bed for six months, my muscles wasted, I have some sort of normality now, but I can not get in and out of normal cars without being either very determined, or helped. I am 57 FFS

We were due a car change anyway ( we run them into the ground and only replace when absolutely required) #green and bought a midrange SUV, we already have plans to buy another one (petrol) before this model disappears into a fug of hybrids.

So when you are hoisting your judgy knickers be aware there are many permutations as to why someone arrived at that decision.

I appreciate that in cases like yours it is necessary. I don’t think anyone would begrudge you a car that allows you to maintain mobility.

I live in a 1980s housing estate, where in the past 5 years everyone (but us) has upgraded to at least 1 SUV per family. There is less space for on-road parking as the car sizes have increased. Passing on the high street has gotten more difficult, etc.

With the change in cars the attitude has changed. They treat me and my tiny 15-yr old run-around appallingly, taking right of way when it isn’t theirs. It 100% has become a “must-have” here.

@StevieNicksscarf the way people move when they get out of a car and walk somewhere.

Pain or fatigue cant be seen. Basic agility can be.
I am disabled you know. In the same way you can tell in photo adverts when an able-bodied model is sitting in a wheelchair as opposed to someone disabled.

Ooo another "you're all terrible for X Y or Z, yes I chose to have two children which is also pretty rotten for the environment but that's okay because it's ME".

@Pinkorchide

Bleepingtons For what it's worth, I'm vegan, drive an EV, don't fly, only buy secondhand etc but am not perfect. I DO have 2 kids which us obviously a shit decision in terms of carbon output but I'm not sure I'd equate that with driving a Range Rover.

OP what about if your kids decide to drive a Range Rover when they’re free to make their own life choices?

I honestly think by the time they're adults, they'll be astonished and appalled by the decisions we made and lifestyles we led. Mine included.

But if they grow up to drive SUVs then so be it, provided they can actually drive them...

If you can afford an SUV you can afford something like a hybrid Corolla.

What a ridiculous comment. My 14 year old SUV is probably worth £1500 tops. I'm intending to keep it until it dies, in which case it will be worth nothing. I couldn't possibly afford an electric SUV. I could swap my SUV for an old hatchback I guess, but as we live in a lane which often floods, that would compromise is. And it would still mean my SUV was on the road, just being driven by someone else.

@RonSwansonsHair

Ooo another "you're all terrible for X Y or Z, yes I chose to have two children which is also pretty rotten for the environment but that's okay because it's ME".

I wish you'd read my arguments properly because I really like your username.

I am not absolving myself but I'm positing the theory that having children is a slightly bigger decision than driving a range rover.

Also - it's a specious argument to say oh you have kids so there's no way you can be environmentally conscious or give a shit or have an opinion which may have some merit to it.

Yes @julieca - but that is my point. Someone may appear "agile" but at what cost. I don't want to get into an argument and I think that the people with disabilities who have SUVs are probably in the minority and that as pps have said, many owners probably don't know or care about the environmental impact.

Also in my defence, I'm in a foul mood this morning as had a telephone review with DWP for my PIP yesterday which is always stress inducing and has made me angry and anxious in equal measure so I apologise if I came on a bit strong.

I am not absolving myself but I'm positing the theory that having children is a slightly bigger decision than driving a range rover.

Of course it's a bigger decision. But if you're starting a thread berating people for their choices with regards to the environment then obviously people are going to bring it up. It's a bigger decision, but its also worse for the environment.

And I have read your arguments, or justifications, which is exactly what other people are doing about their choices.

I don't go on long haul flights, I don't drive an SUV, but I'm not vegan, and I'm a bit hit and miss with my recycling, however I only have one child so can I be sanctimonious now or?

@StevieNicksscarf PIp reviews are stressful and shit.
Maybe others cant, but I can see just in the way people walk how agile and easy it is for them to move. I can see when my DP is experiencing pain when walking, although he doesn't say so, just because he walks less carefreely. I see others walking easily with a kind of a hop in their step, you don't do that if you are in pain.

I don't feel the need to square it with anyone. I have a swb suv and when it dies and is no longer fixable I'm buying a lwb which is even bigger! If I was to attempt to square it with anyone I would probably offset the fact that a) I'll drive it into the ground which is much better than leasing it replacing just because it's old b) I didn't have children because they're a very large drain on the world c) I recycle everything I can d) I compost everything I can e) I grow bird/bee/butterfly friendly garden f) I make lard cakes for the birds to supplement winter feeds g) I have a garden pond for lots of lovely frogs and the like h) I have water saving devices in my cistern i) I water my garden with rain wate j) I have never gone on a long haul holiday k) I buy at local shops l) I buy british wherever I can m) I grow basic staple veg items like potatoes, carrots and onions n) shower instead of bath o) leave beach and woods as I find them and don't remove shells/pebbles/pinecones to take home etc. Can't think of anything else but I'm sure you get the drift. What I would say is I don't do any of these out of any interest in climate change I do them because I want to.

I'll be sure to wave at you all watering your grass via the garden tap after cutting it at the same time on a sunday morning every week in the summer whilst wearing your boden outfit whilst hubby and 2.4 kids wash and polish the electric car sitting outside your new build with 60 year build span when I'm passing in my SUV and again in my new to me bigger SUV.

Kind of a bit like if I started a thread titled "how do parents of children square it with themselves in regards to climate change?" because I didn't have any DC but later on in the thread you found out I drive around in a range rover and go on long haul flights regularly.