To ask how drivers of massive SUVs square it with themselves in terms of climate change?

[Bleepingtons]

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

It should be a collective effort to learn and be better, rather than constantly shaming people for not being eco enough

Indeed. And tbh until the global richest 0.01% - those 1 million people with the mega yachts, the mega mansions, and the private jets etc - start leading with their actions rather mere lectures, billions of others will take it all with a pinch of salt.

@DallasDerby

People will generally find any excuse to justify their decisions - they'll say - what about the long haul flyers, the people who have diesels, the people who eat meat, the people who have kids etc and of course I don't believe the science. Who wants to give up their choices? So they will stupidly defend their bad choices indefinitely - embarrassingly they haven't learned they should shut up - they will in time - who knows whether they will change their ways - they seem pretty selfish.

But your selfish is my not selfish - it’s really not a simple issue. You could argue everything I do/have/use is selfish at some level. It really is not as simple as pointing at someone’s car and saying “baddie”

@VanGoghsDog
China only has factories spewing out emissions because they produce all the shit we buy. So it's actually our fault.
Historically, yes. Today less so - only something like 10-15% is due to export. Today, China produces a shit load of pollution because it has the largest middle class in the world. However, per capita it’s greenhouse gas emissions are only half per capita of what the US, Canada and the US produce.

If it’s reasonable to ask that China should only pollute as much as the US, then it’s reasonable to ask that the US should only pollute as much as the U.K. And perhaps the U.K. should reduce its total emissions to that of Ireland.

@Bleepingtons

Same goes for those who go long haul on the regular? Buy loads of cheap, disposable fashion? Etc etc? Do you just not worry about climate change?

I know I sound sanctimonious but I am genuinely baffled by people driving massive diesel SUVs like there isn't a major issue.

There does seem to be a link between people driving these kind of cars and an ignorant attitude. I've often observed them sitting with the engine running outside school and will rarely wave thanks when you let them past (ahem..forced off the road).

That should say, the US, Canada, and Australia. Three of the worst per capita polluting nations in the world.

Ok I'm not being goady but why are SUV's such a target?
I don't get it. You can get petrol and electric SUV same as any other vehicle but on this thread they seem to be the devil incarnate. I've really not met this point of view before.

I know they can be annoying on the road cos they're big but why are they being so attacked?

I think society isn't get geared to being more eco friendly. I do shop at second hand stores, by old furniture, insulate my house, don't go abroad, buy wine from certain places and so on but other day-to-day things can be more challenging.

For instance, I could buy a wooden toothbrush but my dentist compliments my clean teeth and gums when I use an electric one that is plastic wasteful. I could have a go and it might be fine but my teeth aren't great anyway so I don't want to take the risk so off I go to buy more oral B refills. When there is no good more eco-friendly alternative decisions can be harder.

Argh! Yet geared buy old...

It's been a long day.

I drive a diesel 4x4 but live in the countryside whilst doing a job which involves towing and regular stints off road - something which your average electric car hasn’t got the guts for. Plus I paid £1300 for my car which is all I could afford, when I can get an electric car for that little then fine 🤷‍♀️

Are electric cars so much better though? Where do the batteries come from and where do they all go when they’re dead? I drive a small eco friendly (apparently) petrol car, but I do think “massive SUV” is a sweeping statement. I am guilty of driving my small car more than I probably should / need to but I justify it to myself through the fact that I’m a busy, time poor, single mum. Before we can begin to make “wise” choices on a personal level I really do believe governments have to make eco alternatives easier or we’ll be hearing from the sanctimonious people who own an electric car and that’s as far as it’ll go, while you never know perhaps some people who own these massive SUVs only drive them once a week.

@VanGoghsDog

China only has factories spewing out emissions because they produce all the shit we buy. So it's actually our fault.

My giant SUV was made in England

@daimbarsatemydogsbone why do you feel the need to justify yourself to me? I can't change you - no one can, you make your decisions, stop justifying them by suggesting you aren't the baddie = own your decisions, admit you don't give a shit - stop pretending by justifying your decisions and comparing yourself with others - it's just daft. We need to use less, we all do - it's not a debate, we all need to do our bit, some of us will do more than others - I'm not asking you to justify your decisions to me - you have your kids and your grandkids to convince on that score.

Are electric cars so much better though?

Electric car footprint exposed: Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% HIGHER than petrol models - but once they've done 70,000 miles they become greener

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10161697/Volvo-says-electric-car-making-emissions-70-HIGHER-petrol.html

[quote elbea]@JudgeJ yes! It’s a 1950s Land Rover, still going strong.[/quote]
Wow, and I thought it was a typo! A looked after Land Rover is almost indestructible.

[quote DallasDerby]@daimbarsatemydogsbone why do you feel the need to justify yourself to me? I can't change you - no one can, you make your decisions, stop justifying them by suggesting you aren't the baddie = own your decisions, admit you don't give a shit - stop pretending by justifying your decisions and comparing yourself with others - it's just daft. We need to use less, we all do - it's not a debate, we all need to do our bit, some of us will do more than others - I'm not asking you to justify your decisions to me - you have your kids and your grandkids to convince on that score.[/quote]
Because it’s not a clear cut argument and you are apparently characterising me as someone who doesn’t give a shit which isn’t true. In my understanding, changing to a newer, smaller car (and getting rid of the caravan we could no longer use) may be no less damaging in terms of overall effect on the planet. As I said, it’s arguable that anything I have/do/use is selfish but it is much less clear how to qualify as “not selfish”. DD is 13 and enjoys Caravan holidays (I know!) - not sure if I should tell her we are evil planet destroyers and it’s got to stop. We aren’t fucking up the planet for fun, but I am struggling to see what I need to do to get my green badge that is actually greener.

I don't really think about it to be honest. It's certainly not the only thing I do which is both environmentally harmful and unnecessary.

I’ve got a small SUV diesel because it’s a solid, safe car to do the fifty-odd miles a day school run across rural country roads. It’s a bit cheaper to tax because it’s got a newer, more efficient engine. I’ve had it for ages and when I bought it electric cars weren’t as much of an option. My previous car was a big petrol injection estate and cost twice as much to tax so must have been pumping out a lot more nasty emissions. My next car will be another SUV hopefully and I’ll try to buy electric if it’s feasible to do so.

Obviously not everyone can have an electric car because they have nowhere to charge at home. We’re lucky in that we have a huge driveway and garage so plenty of room to install power points. How people in cities in flats and terraced houses will get on I don’t know. They need the electric cars more than anyone, living in smoggy cities. There has been talk of self charging batteries but I don’t know if that’s a thing.

Pity the electric batteries rely on such heavily mined components. I don’t know if they’re recyclable either?

@daimbarsatemydogsbone I don't give a shit what you do. I'm not your parent or your moral guardian - I expect you to own it - I expect you to attempt to be a responsible adult. You should give a shit what you do and you shouldn't justify your failure to do your very best by looking at your neighbours down the road who have emitted more carbon than you. Your off-spring will judge you (or maybe they won't give a shit either) they might be convinced by the argument that you did at least as well as your neighbours - will that make you proud? Don't answer I don't care...make your decisions and live with the consequences or rather let all our kids and their kids live with them.

Bleepingtons
For what it's worth, I'm vegan, drive an EV, don't fly, only buy secondhand etc but am not perfect. I DO have 2 kids which us obviously a shit decision in terms of carbon output but I'm not sure I'd equate that with driving a Range Rover.

OP what about if your kids decide to drive a Range Rover when they’re free to make their own life choices?

[quote DallasDerby]@daimbarsatemydogsbone I don't give a shit what you do. I'm not your parent or your moral guardian - I expect you to own it - I expect you to attempt to be a responsible adult. You should give a shit what you do and you shouldn't justify your failure to do your very best by looking at your neighbours down the road who have emitted more carbon than you. Your off-spring will judge you (or maybe they won't give a shit either) they might be convinced by the argument that you did at least as well as your neighbours - will that make you proud? Don't answer I don't care...make your decisions and live with the consequences or rather let all our kids and their kids live with them.[/quote]
I really don’t know what you think you are talking about. I absolutely do “give a shit” about what I do and I haven’t said otherwise - you appear to have decided that on my behalf, and like everyone else on this thread who is only interested in making accusations about others and not having a debate, there’s no substance, logic or coherence to anything you say, just chanting nonsense.

@WhoIsBernieBrown

This competitive environmentalism is so exhausting. What's the point in shaming someone because they drive an SUV? Everyone's circumstances are different - someone might drive an SUV but never fly. Someone else might have been vegan all their lives, but have more than 2 children. It should be a collective effort to learn and be better, rather than constantly shaming people for not being eco enough.

This.

People on here like to feel morally superior when in reality, they really aren't.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone no idea why you felt the need to defend the ‘baddies’ aka 4WDs then - but I’m sure they are glad of you understanding and support because you couldn’t possibly give a shot and be one of them.

@Pinkorchide

Bleepingtons For what it's worth, I'm vegan, drive an EV, don't fly, only buy secondhand etc but am not perfect. I DO have 2 kids which us obviously a shit decision in terms of carbon output but I'm not sure I'd equate that with driving a Range Rover.

OP what about if your kids decide to drive a Range Rover when they’re free to make their own life choices?

Both of them.

And then they each have seven kids and they all get Range Rovers

Like a kind of post apocalyptic 'As I was going to St Ives' in my SUV-

Plenty of people NOT in SUVs idle outside DS’ school. Is that ok because they aren’t in an SUV?!

Truthfully I don't really care. I can't have children so don't have the 'what about my kids' argument. Plus those that do have children have a far worse carbon footprint than I do with my car. I could get an electric car but won't until they address the waste created by batteries that can't be disposed of.

Plus, to be frank, until countries like China sort their impact on the environment out, me swapping my pretty green SUV for an electric car will make very little difference