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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we’ve already f****d it up when it comes to the environment.

277 replies

MynameisWa · 03/11/2021 20:38

Am I being unreasonable in thinking we’ve already passed the point of no return when it comes to the environment and that it’s just no one in power or in the know wants to be the one to admit it?

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 04/11/2021 00:42

research suggests cutting down on, or cutting out meat and dairy can have a big impact on CO2 emissions. I’m going to listen to the climate scientists on this one. They have been right for the last 5 decades.

Well yes the research does indicate cutting down or eliminating meat/dairy would reduce CO2 emissions. But couple problems. The research calculates the CO2 emissions reduction by assuming the animals in question cease to exist.

Now, mass extinction of cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc would reduce CO2 the most, but to do so would be collapsing our ecosystem (whole book of explanation there suffice to say one reason is to fertilise Fields where we grow crops as there are nutrients from them that cannot be replaced by compost alone).

In other words, we have to have large populations of these animals even if we do not eat them or milk them to maintain the ecosystem we all depend on for long term survival as a species. Some CO2 is unavoidable.

So obviously, while we can get CO2 reduction by cutting down on meat/dairy, we cannot get CO2 reduction from eliminating it because even if we stopped eating/milking them they’d still be out there living and breathing out CO2.

Starpleck · 04/11/2021 05:28

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@LemonSwan
Lol. Me too. They just can’t comprehend that every plant, animal, human we are all balanced within an ecosystem. You can’t delete one part of the food chain without collapsing the entire eco system.[/quote]
We don't have a natural food chain with animals we eat for meat anymore. We have created one where we breed them in huge numbers, keep them captive on land we choose, and then slaughter them using machinery, miles away from the natural balance of things. What part of the eco system would collapse if we stopped treating sentient beings like commodities?

jetadore · 04/11/2021 07:27

Yes we have but that’s no excuse to do nothing.

Isitsixoclockalready · 04/11/2021 07:35

@Suspiciousmind20

We should have been making significant changes before now but we can absolutely minimise the worst extremes. We really have no choice. It’s a no brainer now. Do or die.
Exactly this.
blink1eight2 · 04/11/2021 07:37

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

And don't talk to me about Leonardo DiCaprio, who literally must have one of the biggest carbon footprints of any human being in this history of this planet ever, telling everyone what they need to do to tackle climate change.
He's so handsome though
Indecisivelurcher · 04/11/2021 07:39

Interesting chat on here. What do people think about regenerative agriculture / mob grazing? Last year I went veggie and my stored iron dropped to 5 units, had to take awful tablets and was actually in quite a bad way, so I've gone back to eating one or two portions of red meat, which I buy from a local farm that employs these methods. I actually don't really eat white meat because its a bit pointless and poultry production is really polluting.

Also on another subject, which carbon footprint calculator is best? I used wwf last night but it's a bit crude, meat is just lots / sometimes /none.

blink1eight2 · 04/11/2021 07:40

What good have we done for the planet? Or for animals?

What 'good' has anything done for the planet ever? Is 'doing good' the end game? What is 'good'?

blink1eight2 · 04/11/2021 07:41

Capitalism has zero impact on environment or climate change.

Oh come on, capitalism increases consumerism.

Indecisivelurcher · 04/11/2021 07:42

Mob agriculture is where the cattle are moved on really really frequently, meaning the vegetation doesn't get clobbered so plants keep deeper roots. Its supposed to mimic more natural grazing regimes and is better for soil health and biodiversity.

Starpleck · 04/11/2021 07:47

@blink1eight2

What good have we done for the planet? Or for animals?

What 'good' has anything done for the planet ever? Is 'doing good' the end game? What is 'good'?

I suppose the more pertinent question would be, if we took humans out of the equation and imagine we didn't exist, what harm would the remaining animals have done to the planet? Some would kill others to eat or through natural instinct, but which animals would be polluting and pillaging the seas? Chopping down rainforests? Sending toxic fumes into the atmosphere? Disrupting eco systems for their own needs and causing the extinction of many species? Its not so much that animals do good for the planet (although many actually do), but that humans are very bad for the planet. I said what good have we done in response to the poster I was replying to who claimed we had done good things for the planet.

Last year I went veggie and my stored iron dropped to 5 units

There are plenty of iron dense vegetarian foods, if someone wants to eat meat that's their choice, but justifying it because they haven't bothered to research basic nutrition is odd.

candycane222 · 04/11/2021 07:50

We have to have large populations of these animals even if we do not eat them or milk them to maintain the ecosystem we all depend on for long term survival as a species. Some CO2 is unavoidable."

Nonsense. Small numbers of farm animals make arable farming easier, though it is also possible to farm "vegan" too. But the levels of livestock we keep in most richer countries now means their shit is a pollution problem, not an asset.

Yants · 04/11/2021 07:55

When it comes to the environment and the natural world I've always been far more concerned with habitat loss and destruction through expanding farmland, urban development and mineral extraction, soil, water and air pollution with chemicals and heavy metals, pesticide use, poaching, over fishing... than I've ever been about man's supposed impact on climate change especially via co2.

The so called battle against Climate change just feels like a convenient method of raising taxes on the 'bad' things whilst improving economic activity and output and GDP by investing and often wasting money in the supposed 'good' things.

Starpleck · 04/11/2021 07:59

@Yants

When it comes to the environment and the natural world I've always been far more concerned with habitat loss and destruction through expanding farmland, urban development and mineral extraction, soil, water and air pollution with chemicals and heavy metals, pesticide use, poaching, over fishing... than I've ever been about man's supposed impact on climate change especially via co2.

The so called battle against Climate change just feels like a convenient method of raising taxes on the 'bad' things whilst improving economic activity and output and GDP by investing and often wasting money in the supposed 'good' things.

Yes I agree that actually emissions are only a small part of the problem. Trouble is there will never be an appetite for curbing our desire to build build build. Emissions are only a possibility because there are going to more emerging technologies that allow us to continue on without making changes.
TreborBore · 04/11/2021 07:59

I have been hearing that ‘people won’t stand for that’ when discussing the lifestyle changes that will be involved. What some people fail to understand is that taking action is not negotiatable. It’s like expecting to step off a cliff and trying to negotiate with the laws of gravity.

The Rio Earth summit 30 years ago would have been the time ideal to make gradual but meaningful action. Now we are in damage limitation mode, where we have to take much more drastic action. The simplest way is to tax fossil fuels heavily, as fossil fuels are responsible for the majority of greenhouse gases.

Squeezita · 04/11/2021 08:04

@blink1eight2

What good have we done for the planet? Or for animals?

What 'good' has anything done for the planet ever? Is 'doing good' the end game? What is 'good'?

Plants/insects/animals aren’t a cancer on this world. Humans are.
blink1eight2 · 04/11/2021 08:09

I really hate the self-flagellation that always crops up on these threads

Styletryle · 04/11/2021 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Squeezita · 04/11/2021 08:13

@blink1eight2

I really hate the self-flagellation that always crops up on these threads
It’s not self-flagellation to acknowledge humans are destroying the parent for all life forms, it’s honesty.
Andwander · 04/11/2021 08:21

Sadly OP your are right.We are just trying to do damage limitation.I dont think humans will see the end of this century.It will be the survival of the fittest in the next 20-40 years.We think Covid 19 as a challenge,you wait til the planet really hits back at us.Humans evolution has gone wrong and the planet needs to free itself from us parasites.

dreamingbohemian · 04/11/2021 08:22

Everyone agrees tropical deforestation is a serious problem, and studies show between 25% and 41% of it is due to beef production.

I don't think it's realistic to end beef eating completely but cutting down by half would still be rather helpful in reducing demand.

dreamingbohemian · 04/11/2021 08:31

Personally I can't get too excited about hitting 1.9 degrees instead of 2 because there are still a lot of terrible things that will happen at 1.9

I think our only hope is technological breakthroughs, and I'm cautiously optimistic there

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/11/2021 08:33

Plants/insects/animals aren’t a cancer on this world. Humans are.

FFS humans are neither superior nor inferior to plants/insects/animals. We are most definitely not a “cancer”. How ridiculous can you be to think that humans are anything other than a mammalian animal?

Squeezita · 04/11/2021 08:34

@PlanDeRaccordement

Plants/insects/animals aren’t a cancer on this world. Humans are.

FFS humans are neither superior nor inferior to plants/insects/animals. We are most definitely not a “cancer”. How ridiculous can you be to think that humans are anything other than a mammalian animal?

Are you seriously this obtuse, Plan?

Are you denying that humans are the cause of global warming?

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/11/2021 08:34

@blink1eight2

I really hate the self-flagellation that always crops up on these threads
Me too. Doomsaying of we are all going to die/humans are going extinct and the self flagellate of humans are cancer/parasites the worst of all living things. Sickening.
bbgxd · 04/11/2021 08:36

@Indecisivelurcher

It is beyond depressing and monumentally terrifying. Not just cop but also the biodiversity crisis. Just look at all the stuff about water companies being allowed to discharge raw sewage, in the press last week. But we have to try. Because what's the alternative?! Not trying?!

Yes it's way more than just GHGs. Deforestation, biodiversity, water scarcity, resource scarcity namely crude oil, hydrological disasters, waste, is urbanising everything because we all need somewhere to live.

We should still try obviously but I don't think there's any going back from this point. Even if we went green- even if we all go back and live in forest, we'll kill off every other thing and trample everything.

It is not natural for a species to have this much of an impact and we're all screwed. I'll do my bit but it's all a bit futile