Why schools do this!!?

[FedUpOfYetAnotherCold]

AIBU to wonder why children in primary school are taught 'head, shoulders, knees and toes' in French, can tell the difference between metamorphic, sedimentary and ignious rocks, can trace a stone age picture, can create great models of the tower of London, and learn (and promptly forget) all about the Victorians, Romans etc... but...

Quite a few can't swim 25m by end of primary (a skill which could save their life), many barely know what the term 'mental health' means - let alone know how to manage their own or support others with MH difficulties. Most state primary kids are not given access to decent sports provision to support future athletic dreams, better manage in-school behaviour, and promote healthy lifestyle and reduce obesity, and very few kids are supported to learn key life skills. (I'm focussing on primary here - but we also need more life skills like MH and budgeting and cooking etc... taught in secondary)..

Surely we need more teaching in schools on mental health, life skills and better access to sports and teaching which will lead to physically and mentally healthy adults of the future.

When my children finish primary I'd like them to be able to read, write and do basic maths. But in terms of the rest of the teaching - surely we now need to re-evaluate how much emphasis we place on teaching less vital skills such as French (if a language is deemed important why not Chinese, Spanish or Arabic, or something more useful in this current global village) which could be learnt later if desired?

AIBU?

If you want simple and easy scapegoats, try drugs, the people at the top of society who have encouraged them, consumerism v the cost of living and social media. Try watching the BBC’s Century of the Self.

OP - your list is really down to parental responsibility, especially 'life skills'.
Schools are currently facing extreme budgetary pressures and have to prioritise academic/curriculum learning which is definitely their responsibility. In an ideal world I'm sure schools would love to offer swimming lessons, more sports and MH awareness, but the funding just isn't there.

I do think the OP has a point.

There is a lot of dubious stuff taught because Conservative Ministers and (some) parents think it should be on the curriculum. Rote learning of Kings and Queens as well, sitting in rows at old style desks, writing with an ink pen, strict uniform and grooming regulations - and things that private schools do. The pedagogy around much of this is also dubious, but hey that's what they do at Eton....

Forcing kids to get good marks in random spelling tests, time tables tests and phonics tests is horrific for their mental health. Allowing them to find their talents, love for knowledge etc. is great for their self-esteem and therefore their mental health. Education for the sake of it and fostering a love of learning instead of the obsession with literacy and numeracy would benefit children's mental health and ironically their literacy and numeracy. I've actually given up now and am so glad my children are almost finished with education as it's so skewed from any real purpose or benefit as to be damaging to society now 🤷‍♀️

@Repecka

I work in education and children are taught to pass SATS/GCSE’s. There not actually taught an education that is truly meaningful and impactful on real life.

I also work in education and agree with you 100%. However I also believe we need some sort of accountability so I don't actually know what the solution is.

@riceuten

I do think the OP has a point.

There is a lot of dubious stuff taught because Conservative Ministers and (some) parents think it should be on the curriculum. Rote learning of Kings and Queens as well, sitting in rows at old style desks, writing with an ink pen, strict uniform and grooming regulations - and things that private schools do. The pedagogy around much of this is also dubious, but hey that's what they do at Eton....

When have you last been in a primary schools?

There's no rote learning. None.

There are no desks.

Rows only came back during covid and for quite a limited time, other than that it's group tables. Round, square,rectangular, U shaped whatever.

Uniforms, it is what it is. I'm not a fan and I think some schools have ridiculous expectations both on what a uniform should be and the costs of it.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose of course there's desks and of course there's rote learning. Times table rock stars or whatever similar thing every primary school does is still just rote learning it just looks a bit fancier these days.

The OP says that many primary school children don't understand mental health.... these are children under 11, until a few years ago the majority of adults had no clue about mental health, there has been massive stigma attached to anything related to mental health.
I used to work for the National Institute for Mental Health in England (and some of it's other names) for over a decade starting at the turn of the century.
We fought an uphill battle to get Mental Health brought into the forefront of people's minds and for it to be given ring-fenced funding in the NHS and despite having been exposed to this, day in, day out, for over a decade, I'm a grown adult still don't fully 'understand' everything about it.

So, expecting a primary school student to 'understand' Mental Health is most definitely unreasonable.

This reminds me of when I used to teach food tech and the amount of comments I got about 'they should be learning to make a roast dinner ' : this would not be practical with a class of 20 and 10 ovens and a 50 minute lesson , even if you did have a longer lesson and could somehow fit all the food in the ovens the food would be cold by the time it got home, a lot of parents wouldn't want to spend all the money on so many ingredients and the meat wouldn't fit in the fridge to be stored (20 joints of meat!)
There are lots of well meaning ideas about life skills , cooking on a budget, writing a cv etc but practically these things are very hard to teach (kids often find them extremely boring as well and switch off) and actually you learn them through doing them - eg when you first live on your own is often the first time you learn to budget for a food shop .
Schools do loads of work with mental health and emotional well-being . It's a lot better now as well and is a big part of the curriculum and often there will be staff specifically employed to promote emotional well-being
Schools are often a safe and positive place for kids from tough backgrounds but can only do so much.

Do you want schools to teach skills for life, or skills for jobs and professional achievements?

Rote learning, especially wrt times tables, helps memory, cognition, sequencing, and generally supports numeracy: being able to split numbers apart and put the back together. Just saying, while I’m sitting on here.

Kings and queen lists offer a date framework to build knowledge of history, which helps with learning about cause and effect on a social scale.

I'm sorry, I'm going to mention French again!! - honestly if people enjoy it and want to study it at secondary school that's great! However, I honestly can't understand why it's part of many primary schools curricula.

Fgs. I teach primary MFL and taught in secondary schools for years. Most primary kids (from yr 3 at the earliest) have a 30 or 40 min French or Spanish lesson once a week - it's not exactly taking up much curriculum time. It's fun and encourages cultural awareness and wider literacy, and they are like sponges for language at that age. If you don't introduce it at primary when it's fun and easy, kids won't want to do it at secondary. We are shit enough as a nation already at languages.

I'm all for supporting children with mental health and focusing on them being numerate and literate by the time they go to secondary school. Sorry, but I am not interested in designing the early part of children's start on their educational journey based on the problems of adult offenders.

Out of interest, are there any subjects you think aren't pointless at primary school apart from maths, literacy, swimming and mental health? Or is everything apart from French and oxbow lakes ok?

Very true luckily, my sons primary taught swimming.
But I found out about his MH, probably Anxiety, which showed up when he got taught about the plaque. Which I did at GCSE level but at the age of 14,he got taught it at about 6 or 7.
But I got no help of the doctor, apart from him agreeing with me, then he said have a word with his teacher! Who was shocked, that the doctor didn't do anything else, my son was that anxious, he was making him self voimt in class, quite a harsh reaction. Luckily his teacher put some measures in place, but he still struggles and is now 14, he has had therapy to deal with it, but it took us requesting it from the doctor. He has talked to his class about it, in both primary and then in secondary school. But nothing form school about, things he could do to deal with bullying. They had PSHE at primary and I think in secondary, but not a. Lot around mental health, he can go talk to someone, but if he mentioned who is bullying him, the teacher talks to the other kid, that he gets bothered more for being a tell tale. Which I know from when I was a teen, makes the bully annoy you more, so he doesn't report it any more.
But the secondary schools could do, to teach kids about budgeting, then when the are older, they don't take out loans or buy now pay later, to buy clothes with, or stuff they want but don't have the money for, so they aren't living off credit all the time.

Just to add about languages...DD has SEN and is so far behind her peers in everything. She loves, loves, LOVES French because it's a level playing field.

It's your job to teach your child that stuff. It's their job to the academic stuff.

Could not disagree more. In my experience too much time is given up for naff health kicks that look good in the paper or of stead reports (eg running a mile (ish) a day). A Taster of a variety of sports are given and suitable after school clubs for keen pupils work now.... As for swimming if I did a quick poll of who regularly swims I'd be lucky to get 1 out of 20...it oft involves the school bus and changing room palava... basically ends up a quarter of a day lost for 15 mins in the water. I know I'm in the minority but stats of people drowning clearly shows non swimmers are at least risk.... why because most deaths aren't in an ambient pool but rather other places with kids who have misplaced confidence.
Coast dwelling families probably disagree.

Sorry but the joy of learning in primary is the number one thing outside of family that promotes a more fulfilled life and I wouldn't want it diluted more than it is now due to incessant exams.

Christ alive you're not asking much OP

These are life skills to be taught at home, not at school!!! My children can swim, cook, budget and have been taught mental resilience from a very early age, AT HOME. Schools are for academic learning and believe me it's already difficult to pack it in to an already full curriculum...

They don't.
HTH.

Glad to hear that you all think primary school can teach swimming. I've just found out my DS swimming will involve one instructor at the side of the pool to 33 children at varying stages, for 30 minutes for a few weeks

I put YABU because of how toy phrases this as if it is schools' fault...I just finished teacher training and the number one thing I heard teachers complain about is the national curriculum. They don't get to decide what knowledge and skills they teach the children, the government does. So many really want to teach about MH and key life skills but there is NO TIME because it is all taken up with teaching the mega jam packed curriculum which they have to teach

Plus, a lot of what you say is transferable skills or has some value further than what you describe. Learning french songs - exposure to another language. Learning about rocks - collecting and organising information. A model of the tower of london - key motor skills.

So many people jump straight to school bashing when a small amount of thought would avoid that

Tackling poverty would have more of an impact on the levels of youth offending than teaching life skills in primary school. When children grow up in deprivation, this leads to negative outcomes for most. No aspirations, disfunctional family life, parents don't have the time or motivation to support learning outside of set homework. Alot of parents don't have spare money to do cultural or educationally enriching activities and if you have more than one child or no transport, this can be a barrier as well. Positive mental health and coping strategies would work better once the homelife was better

@Bellfor

Just to add about languages...DD has SEN and is so far behind her peers in everything. She loves, loves, LOVES French because it's a level playing field.

So true! Some of my best learners of french at secondary school are the EAL students and those in my little SEN class!

Aside from the fact that it is quite possible to take your own child swimming and teach them/ get them Swimming lessons, please don’t tar all schools with the same brush because a lot of what you claim they don’t teach - they do.

Schools get blamed for failing to teach so much stuff that is actually a parents job. All of societies woes get blamed on schools. The rate it is going, and the expectations on what schools should teach, teachers will be collecting children from the maternity ward and dropping them off at home when they turn 18.

No wonder there is a huge recruitment and retention issue in education.

@FedUpOfYetAnotherCold

You should really look at Maria Montessori and the Montessori pedagogy. It's just amazing, esp 6-12 (cosmic education). You should see what children who have access to these materials can achieve! Covers everything you hope for. Sadly, it's not wide spread in the UK, but it is global. The focus is all on helping the child to construct themselves in order to produce an adult who can contribute to their community.

I must disagree with you re: early years. Actually, what the child learns and the life skills at young ages is (IMO) more vital than the secondary years. Children don't suddenly decide that they will study (mostly). It's a habit built in from an early age, and by understanding the world around them, they are able to step out into the world. In order to understand the world, they have to learn about it. The brain is a muscle, and in the early years (during their sensitive periods) the child learns such a lot.

But I get what you are saying. It feels like some adults never ever stood a chance. But this isn't on the schools, or on the curriculum. This is on the examples shown by role models around the child, the interest shown in the child and the encouragement that child is given as well as the opportunities that present themselves. I don't know what the answer is.

We used to lose a half day every week to swimming lessons because we had to be bussed a 2hr round trip to our "local" pool. I think our school only managed it by fundraising by the PTA in the villages in the catchment area.
We really loved it as kids but we'd leave at 9am and not be back at school till lunch break, so no school till 12.30-45 once a week basically.

However I'm not sure a lot of schools are able to afford to do that and I know so many parents struggle with costs as it is.

When I used to teach, I worked in a middle school near to a k-6 Montessori school (this was America, 6th grade is 12-13 years old). About 20% of our 7th graders any given year came from the Montessori and we had a hell of a time getting them up to grade standard, especially in Mathematics. They were generally lovely and social kids though. I personally think Montessori is great up until about 6-7 years old, max.