Why schools do this!!?

[FedUpOfYetAnotherCold]

AIBU to wonder why children in primary school are taught 'head, shoulders, knees and toes' in French, can tell the difference between metamorphic, sedimentary and ignious rocks, can trace a stone age picture, can create great models of the tower of London, and learn (and promptly forget) all about the Victorians, Romans etc... but...

Quite a few can't swim 25m by end of primary (a skill which could save their life), many barely know what the term 'mental health' means - let alone know how to manage their own or support others with MH difficulties. Most state primary kids are not given access to decent sports provision to support future athletic dreams, better manage in-school behaviour, and promote healthy lifestyle and reduce obesity, and very few kids are supported to learn key life skills. (I'm focussing on primary here - but we also need more life skills like MH and budgeting and cooking etc... taught in secondary)..

Surely we need more teaching in schools on mental health, life skills and better access to sports and teaching which will lead to physically and mentally healthy adults of the future.

When my children finish primary I'd like them to be able to read, write and do basic maths. But in terms of the rest of the teaching - surely we now need to re-evaluate how much emphasis we place on teaching less vital skills such as French (if a language is deemed important why not Chinese, Spanish or Arabic, or something more useful in this current global village) which could be learnt later if desired?

AIBU?

Head shoulders need and toes in French - French is a language spoken by millions and is one of our nearest neighbours and allies.

Rocks - lots of people use this information in their jobs - think surveyors, builders, architects etc.

Learning about our history is important. Teach kids the mistakes of the past so they don't repeat them in future.

Swimming- isn't it parents job to teach their kids to swim or take them to lessons? Why should this be funded by the taxpayer?

Agree that sports and cooking / healthy eating are important. Sports should be done more in school. I think cooking and healthy eating is something parents should encourage more tbh.

Disagree fundamentally OP, think more emphasis needs to be given to the basics of reading, writing and maths / numbers. Too much time is given at my son's primary school for PSE, resilience, outdoor learning, gym at the expense of basic skills. Now in year 4 and more than a third of the class need support with reading - frankly it would have been to these kids benefit for this to be picked up much much earlier.

I'm not knocking French if you do it from choice in secondary school, but given the limited resources in primary schools, what is the point of this subject?

It’s not about the subject necessarily. It’s about breeding curiosity and a love of learning. The children who’s parents aren’t at least trying to equip them with the basic life skills you describe, are also unlikely to be providing additional learning opportunities. The kids aren’t going to ‘opt’ to study french at secondary, because no one has encouraged them to explore different topics in the past, nobody believed they were capable of anything more than the very basics. How can they believe in themselves? As a previously said, you’re risking these children basically being categorised as not worth an academic education.

I am biased because I liked French was good at it and did it at a level and a business course as part of my degree.

I worked in France three different times in three locations with the skills I learned. I would not have got those opportunities if I didn't know the language!

So for me learning French meant I was very successful in my alevels (French being my highest mark) and opened up working abroad to me.

I know this is very very far from the norm. Completely get that, but to say learning a language is pointless simply isn't true!!!

It has a point for some people and has no point for others, just like almost every subject at school! There are shed loads of things I have never used (Pythagorean theorem, algebra, most of maths in fact!)

What would be better than teaching kids to manage anxiety, is to create a society and education system that doesn't make kids feel anxious.

At least 50% of kids with MH problems say school is the main factor.

How much time do you think a teacher has in a day? School can only teach so much the rest is on the parents you want your kid to swim? Take them to lessons

Because our current education system was devised hundreds of years ago when the skills you needed to be successful were very different to the skills you need today.

There's a lot of very concerned people doing a some really interesting work in this field. If you're interested look at Sugata Mitra's ted talk. But basically the general consensus is that the U.K. education system has not changed enough to keep up with the changes in a global society. Furthermore if you look at educational league tables the only one that the U.K. tops the charts in is rote learning in every other way we're falling behind and it shows. It's looking increasingly unlikely we can compete with China when it comes to stem for example.

It's controversial but I personally like both the Swedish and Finnish educational models. I have colleagues who prefer the Chinese model - particularly when it comes to maths although I respectfully disagree with them! The point is though nobody is looking to the U.K. (or the U.S.) as a good example of how we should be educating our kids anymore.

One thing I do know is that whenever someone tries to affect real change to bring our educational system up to date, it's met with real hostility in the media. Because of this, I don't think it'll ever get popular support because people mistake the changes for making our educational system too easy. I've no idea why this hostility exists but I suspect it's to do with how little funding per pupil we receive when compared to other countries.

@Hercisback

The immaturity in student stems from the government putting pressure on the wrong output. There's pressure on teachers to get exam results, teachers can (and do) lose their jobs if the results aren't good enough. This means teachers will spoon feed kids through a qualification to get SLT/Ofsted off their back. The government has taken away so much responsibility from individuals and put it on to schools and other services. This creates a culture of immature and spoon fed kids who struggle to think for themselves. Not all of them, but there is a definite shift in attitude.

Completely agree with you.

@category12

The answer to every social problem is not "teach it in schools!"

Absolutely agree with this. And if we’re going to campaign to teach better mental health support in schools, really we need to investigate and address why MH is at crisis point: phones and tablets given to kids from a young age? Social media and porn available to children? Lack of access to nature and exercise? Normalisation of UHPFs? A frightening climate of human survival crisis and massive political corruption, where buying stuff and showing what you own is often portrayed as far more important than having a bit less to help others out?

OP, I also agree that eg. young offenders show that a vast swathe of kids aren’t being given the chances they should have, but ditching actual knowledge as a sweeping reform for all kids (otherwise, what? MH and swimming lessons for That Lot and history and French for the middle class kids??) isn’t the answer.

@ohfook which league tables are you referring too? (Genuine question as I’m interested in reading them!)

OP I agree with you. I understand that something would have to give from the current curriculum to fit this in, but I think all kids should leave primary literate, numerate, knowing some basic mental health skills (at least mindfulness and breathing techniques for stress and anxiety), understanding basic nutrition and also how to cook a few very simple healthy and cheap meals. Budgeting and learning how interest works would be great too but might be a bit advanced for primary age.

It’s frustrating when people say well it’s the parents responsibility to teach all that. Yup, it is… and in many cases for lots of reasons it doesn’t happen. As you say OP, it’s a privilege many kids don’t have :(

Because our current education system was devised hundreds of years ago when the skills you needed to be successful were very different to the skills you need today.

People love spouting this drivel surprisingly often.
School is nothing like it was a hundred years ago and the subjects are not the same either - they may sound the same but they entail very different learning. School isn’t even the same as it was 20 years ago 😂
Ask any child who has done a dull although novel, entertaining and yet terrifying ‘Victorian Day’ at school - it’s an eye opener for them and nothing like what they know from school.

Schools aren't meant to be replacing parents. It seems to me that demanding schools teach various topics is an easy way to point the blame at anyone other than parents. I've heard it all before. Teachers should be teaching children how to grow vegetables, manage finances, maintain good mental health, to be well mannered, to be organised and how to eat healthily.

I understand that some parents will never be willing to provide these life skills but there is limited time in a school day and it is unlikely that a few sessions on mental health for instance, are going to have a long term impact on a child. These sort of topics need to be tailored to each individual child's needs based on their personality, maturity and life stage by parents on an ongoing basis.

My son is a Magnificent Minds champion for his primary school, they organise fun activities for kids at break to encourage friendships and they have a bench for kids to go and sit on if they need a chat with a peer. He's also a sports leader so they have a rota for lunch time that each child will organise an activity such as bull dog or skipping and they encourage others to join in. Our school also provide swimming lessons in years 5 and 6 to ensure all kids can swim 25m. If your school isn't doing these things, get on to them to sort it, it's most definitely not the case these things are ignored in all schools

Because all those things are fun… Which is brilliant for mental health.

I work in education and children are taught to pass SATS/GCSE’s.
There not actually taught an education that is truly meaningful and impactful on real life.

V late to the party, and not rtfs, but from page 1 … have you tried teaching kids to stay away from drugs from a school?!? Surrounded by a culture of drugs? We’re trying, but drowning!

If kids are living in a culture, any culture, but school tries to give them an alternative: you’re asking kids to turn their backs on everything that they know, everything that is normal, and betray it. I use that word quite deliberately, because I have been on that side too - in less important matters - and in any conflict between school and outside world the chances are the outside world is going to win. Schools, as much as they irritate me, are not the sole solution to all of society’s woes.

Makes me laugh that you obviously can’t be bothered to teach your own child these ‘basic life skills’ 😂

I am from the past and I was never taught to swim properly in primary school. I don't think it was the school's fault- our primary school had classes of 40 children. When children learn swimming today, the classes are no bigger than 6 and the teacher is in the water with them for the initial stages. It's not just some random lunatic shoving kids into water with a pole and hook on to make sure they don't drown.

Schools are underfunded. I believe it's up to us as parents/carers to teach our children to swim. My 2 and 4yr old go weekly and it costs less than £3 for all of us in my local council pool with my mam with us (all members....pay a fee of £8each per year). As for mental health....age appropriate....we again as parents/carers can access tools to read to our children or teach them through play about being mindful. Teaching them about emotions. Languages....I do agree with you there that French is a silly language to learn unless you visit or have French relatives, like German. My husband's family are German and so decided that we would teach our children German from birth. I think children should be taught a language that will help them in the future, in this day and age its Chinese, Arabic or Spanish in schools.

Sorry but you’ve generalised and been quite judgmental and ignorant tbh - most schools teach all of what you have listed 🤷‍♀️

Totally agree, the curriculum in this country is outrageous and ridiculous.
Years spent learning a load of rubbish, kids making themselves sick for the sake of an exam, after which they are free to forget it all unless they go into a specific field 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

I dont know if I agree with swimming being an essential skill... I feel that's more of a parent responsibility. As are plenty of other things. One definite problem with the schooling system in the UK is how lazy parents are and how much they expect from teachers!!

Ask your school to check out Partnership for Children, they have 4 courses for primary schools which I run at my primary school called Zippy’s Friends, Apples Friend’s, Passport and SPARK. They are all aimed at equipping children with social skills, coping strategies, resilience, good mental health, dealing with difficult situations. The first three are run over 24 sessions each in school and the last one for year 6 over 10 weeks. They are well worth a look at.

in the UK is how lazy parents are and how much they expect from teachers!
Now that attitude is something I have a real problem with as well. Look at the number of working poor in this country, and how hard people are having to work to keep a job, any job, and how little they pay relative to cost of living. Not to mention the general difficulties of parenting in bad city areas with no jobs and drug dealers offering all the branded goods kids are sold on the doorstep.

Too many people are looking for easy solutions, easy scapegoats.