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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find a replacement for my cleaner...

116 replies

Newbie408 · 03/11/2021 15:29

... after finding out that she isn't vaccinated against COVID?

Just that really.

She mentioned this in passing when she was here today - this is not due to being vulnerable or anything, just that she "doesn't believe" in the vaccine. Her unvaccinated secondary school age children also live with her which makes me feel more uncomfortable.

To be clear, this isn't a choice based on discriminating against her for her beliefs, it's about a genuine fear of being more at risk from catching COVID from her and I don't know if I'm BU for feeling like this.

I know that looking for a replacement starts a slippery slope of discrimination against those who chose not to be vaccinated but I feel uncomfortable as I am home when she is here and I am quite heavily pregnant - this final factor being what is swaying me towards finding a replacement.

Am I being over the top? Do I just need to accept that COVID is part of our lives now and so is inevitably mixing with people that have chosen not to get the vaccine?

Sorry this is a bit stream of consciousness. Really appreciate any thoughts.

OP posts:
LoveGrooveDanceParty · 04/11/2021 07:20

@KalvinPhillipsManBun

Good luck sacking her based on her none of your business medical status as it's confidential.🙄
I don’t think she needs luck.
opalplumstead · 04/11/2021 08:20

I used to be a cleaner

I am double vaccinated and not in any way anti vax

However I respect the right of people to choose if they don't want it for any reason whatsoever. It's called bodily autonomy and it's a very slippery slope to go down forcing people to have medical treatment/ procedures

if any of my cleaning clients had requested to see private medical info aka "evidence" I'd been vaxed I'd have sacked them forthwith , not the other way round. I always had a waiting list so I'd have just taken another client (most good cleaners do have a waiting list).

Some absolutely ridiculous and hysterical comments on here 😫

LoveGrooveDanceParty · 04/11/2021 08:54

Sorry - can you direct me to the part in the thread where the OP says she’s going to ‘force’ anyone to get vaccinated?

I missed that part.

MareofBeasttown · 04/11/2021 09:01

@LoveGrooveDanceParty

Sorry - can you direct me to the part in the thread where the OP says she’s going to ‘force’ anyone to get vaccinated?

I missed that part.

Exactly. I placed an ad for a cleaner in my neighbourhood group asking specifically for vaccinated cleaners. I got responses from vaxxed cleaners. I chose the one that suited me best with regard to timings. Nobody forced anyone.

Obviously the availability of vaxxed cleaners will depend on the area the OP is in- maybe they are scarce where she is-but she certainly has a right to choose one.

AtillatheHun · 04/11/2021 09:05

@KalvinPhillipsManBun she’s not an employee so not subject to employment laws so no luck required

opalplumstead · 04/11/2021 09:08

@LoveGrooveDanceParty

Sorry - can you direct me to the part in the thread where the OP says she’s going to ‘force’ anyone to get vaccinated?

I missed that part.

Clearly she didn't say that, I never said she did. I just feel we're going down a road where people are going to not be able to work, to travel, to access healthcare if they aren't vaxed. So while no one is holding them down and giving them a COVID jab it's twisting peoples arms so much that it is as good as forcing them

And people are ok with it 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I just don't think it's right and I say this as someone who chose to be jabbed

MareofBeasttown · 04/11/2021 09:14

Yes, people are not going to be able to travel without being vaxxed because countries with poor healthcare or with no access to the vaccine don't want British people to infect them. Ditto countries where Covid is not running rampant. I think travel is a done deal now.

Regarding healthcare, nobody has suggested on this thread that the unvaxxed should have no access to healthcare, so not sure why you are raising this red herring.

opalplumstead · 04/11/2021 09:18

No I'm not saying anyone has

However I feel that this is potentially the road we are going down. I hope I'm wrong, I really do

And I don't agree with it.

And I say all this as someone who personally chose to take the vax . My vax protects me so it simply doesn't bother me if others haven't had it.

RockinHorseShit · 04/11/2021 09:36

And I say all this as someone who personally chose to take the vax . My vax protects me so it simply doesn't bother me if others haven't had it.

But you have that luxury, not everyone does, some of us are CEV, some have extremely vulnerable friends or family, some have lost friends & family to Covid19 d already. We are allowed to care enough about those in our circle, or ourselves & protect ourselves or others

My situation may be different in that several long time friends seem to have lost the plot in terms of Covid denial/antivaxxers stance & pretty vocal & nasty with it, so I don't view antivaxxers well & know them to be risk takers who believe it's the survival of the fittest & their healthy diets protect them against a new no big deal flu bug & they sadly lacking in understanding science. It's been an eye opener for sure & I try & put it down to a well documented fear response

I don't know anyone who hasn't had the vaccine (bar for medical reasons) who actually takes it all seriously. I've lost friends & family o it already, no way in hell will I risk mixing closely with unvaccinated, when we have extremely CEV in our circle who we do see regularly & both DD & I are too. We have a right to protect ourselves & circle from those making more selfish or fearful choices

Sugarplumfairy65 · 04/11/2021 12:10

@KalvinPhillipsManBun

Good luck sacking her based on her none of your business medical status as it's confidential.🙄
Cleaners are usually self employed, I know mine is and had been vaccinated
Sugarplumfairy65 · 04/11/2021 12:14

@Sherwil16

I had a cleaner for 2 years, then when the pandemic hit, I told my cleaner that she couldn't come into my home. I paid her from March until July 2020, hoping that things would be better. I am CEV, having had a kidney transplant, so was shielding. In July 2020, I texted my cleaner to say it didn't look like it would be possible for her to return. Fast forward to October 2021, now having had 3 vaccinations, I have tried to find a cleaner through word of mouth. Both came highly recommended, but not vaccinated. I have now found a cleaner who has been double vaccinated, so fingers crossed.
I'm the same. I paid my cleaner throughout all the lockdown. She didn't come back to clean until after her 2nd vaccination. I've had 3 vaccines but haven't developed any antibodies so the only way I can keep myself safe is by not mixing with people who are a high risk to me.
ilovesooty · 04/11/2021 12:42

If those who cannot be vaccinated are able to safely access facilities like travel by barring those who are unvaccinated by choice I'm fine with that.

ilovesooty · 04/11/2021 12:43

more safely I should have said. Nothing is guaranteed.

milkyaqua · 04/11/2021 13:23

If people don't want to take a global pandemic seriously or their own health seriously or the health and actual lives of others seriously, then so be it, but I would not want them in my home or around a vulnerable newborn. She's made her choices. So be it. YANBU.

LoveGrooveDanceParty · 04/11/2021 16:59

My vax protects me so it simply doesn't bother me if others haven't had it.

Nice for you.

One of DD’s best friends - for example - is 11 (so too young currently to get the vaccine) and has cystic fibrosis. There are myriad other examples just like this.

The thing about vaccine is that it’s far greater than the sum of its parts. Something too many people seem to struggle to understand.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 04/11/2021 20:36

@opalplumstead

I used to be a cleaner

I am double vaccinated and not in any way anti vax

However I respect the right of people to choose if they don't want it for any reason whatsoever. It's called bodily autonomy and it's a very slippery slope to go down forcing people to have medical treatment/ procedures

if any of my cleaning clients had requested to see private medical info aka "evidence" I'd been vaxed I'd have sacked them forthwith , not the other way round. I always had a waiting list so I'd have just taken another client (most good cleaners do have a waiting list).

Some absolutely ridiculous and hysterical comments on here 😫

But nobody is forcing anyone to have a medical procedure
Vaxxing is a choice. Those who choose not to vax will have to face restrictions on where they can go and yes, where they can work. That's the new world.
LoveGrooveDanceParty · 05/11/2021 06:16

Vaccines have eradicated diseases from our daily lives. We no longer have to deal with them - because of vaccines.

That’s a fact.

They haven’t just ‘magically’ disappeared.

WTF do people think happened to these diseases? Confused

Eastie77Returns · 05/11/2021 06:38

@ilovesooty

If those who cannot be vaccinated are able to safely access facilities like travel by barring those who are unvaccinated by choice I'm fine with that.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If you are unvaccinated by choice you pose the same ‘threat’ as someone who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons. If unvaccinated people are banned from travel etc because they are such a danger to public safety then surely all un vaccinated people must be banned, irrespective of the reason for their status?

OP - YANBU to fire your cleaner, do what makes you feel comfortable. However you can of course catch COVID from a double vaccinated cleaner. Symptoms are said to be less severe in that scenario although MN seems awash with threads featuring double vaccinated people with awful symptoms (but apparently it would be much worse and they’d be on ventilators/at deaths door if they were not double jabbed)

JassyRadlett · 05/11/2021 08:51

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If you are unvaccinated by choice you pose the same ‘threat’ as someone who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons. If unvaccinated people are banned from travel etc because they are such a danger to public safety then surely all un vaccinated people must be banned, irrespective of the reason for their status?

No, because the risks tend to be cumulative, rather than absolute.

One unvaccinated person in a group of a hundred vaccinated people is less likely to be exposed themselves, and even if infected is less likely to infect a vaccinated person - and the overall exposure will be pretty low.

Thirty unvaccinated people in that same group are going to present more risks of exposure, putting everyone at higher risk, and the unvaccinated-for-medical-reasons person will be at particular risk.

ilovesooty · 05/11/2021 13:05

@JassyRadlett - exactly.

JassyRadlett · 05/11/2021 14:54

@ilovesooty Covid has been a huge eye opener for me, and a real education, in how desperate people are for absolutes. Vaccines have to work or not work. Covid has to be transmitted or not transmitted in x situation. Masks have to be 100% effective or pointless.

There seems to be a real struggle with things that are less than 100% perfect, or reduce risk rather than remove it. People really want guarantees rather than risk reduction.

It’s objectively super interesting, though I sometimes find it hard to maintain that objectivity…

MareofBeasttown · 05/11/2021 14:58

[quote JassyRadlett]@ilovesooty Covid has been a huge eye opener for me, and a real education, in how desperate people are for absolutes. Vaccines have to work or not work. Covid has to be transmitted or not transmitted in x situation. Masks have to be 100% effective or pointless.

There seems to be a real struggle with things that are less than 100% perfect, or reduce risk rather than remove it. People really want guarantees rather than risk reduction.

It’s objectively super interesting, though I sometimes find it hard to maintain that objectivity…[/quote]
Well said. You can still catch Covid from a vaxxed person. But the chances are 60 to 70% lower. So yes, the vaxxed will be given priority by employers like me.

Fangdango · 05/11/2021 15:19

Surely this wouldn't - usually - be a case of "firing" the cleaner? She's self-employed. She offers her service - cleaning by someone more likely to bring Covid into your household than most. That's not a service you want with a baby on the way.

If you were her employer this might be more complicated but you probably aren't.

You're entitled to advertise for someone fully vaccinated to take up the role, and many cleaners will be happy to confirm / prove that they are vaccinated.

If you've a good relationship with your current cleaner, you could ask her to be in touch if she ever gets the vaccines. Or you could simply let her know you'll need to end your arrangement now baby is coming and work from there.

Even mild Covid is hardly what you need with a new baby. Her body, her choice. Your home, your choice.

LittleGwyneth · 05/11/2021 16:10

She's your cleaner so it's your choice, but the Guardian front page this week said that being vaccinated doesn't make you less likely to transmit the virus.

MareofBeasttown · 05/11/2021 16:21

Being vaccinated does make you less likely to be infected though.