To ask how to separate my own low self esteem from DD's difficulties

[oohlalabonbons]

DD is in Year 7 and struggling with friendships. She is a lovely girl, but feels she is being left out and alone by the peers she was at primary with.

I'm not really sure why, but she sometimes forgets to show interest in others, and I think she might be seen as immature and a bit nerdy by the group that she wants to be friends with.

We have encouraged her to join clubs etc and generally put herself out there. She is quite bright and gained the most 'achievement points' in Y7 for the first half term, which also gained her some unpleasant comments from her peers.

I am finding this really hard as I feel that it is my fault. She is very like me personality-wise, and it breaks my heart that I have done this to her.

I have very few friends as an adult, and had an awful time at secondary school with being excluded by those I thought were friends and being bullied for working hard and achieving.

I am really struggling to support her as I get irrationally cross at the way she is like me and disappointed that she can't be different. This is massively unfair on her and although I try not to show it, I am feeling so low and I think she senses this disappointment.

I am feeling so low about all this and keep dissolving into tears, so please, please be kind and help me try to separate my own issues and help DD.

Hugs to you both.
It's a hard year for many kids. My DD really struggled in yr 7 and 8 but the light at the end of the tunnel started in yr9.
It's not really surprising that she is like you. Genetics and all that.
Maybe you can help your own self esteem here too? You have great qualities, you say yourself that you work hard and achieved academically, you're also a kind Mum and are looking for advice to be better. Popularity is not the be all and end all. Contentment is found in valuing yourself rather than seeking validation.
Find the things in your DD (and yourself) that you can praise. Don't compare her to others.

I think you sound like you need to separate the issues yourself, and recognise that your DD is not you, even if you see parallels. You can't support and advise if you are internalising her hurt and also simultaneously wishing she was someone else.

What do you mean when you say she's like you in personality? Do you mean in terms of struggling with friendships?

Oh, and another thing occurred to me -- would there be any benefit to moving schools to somewhere where her cleverness is valued?

@Beamur thank you for the kindness - the tears are back again now!

@Verfremdungseffekt that is just what I need to do - separate us in my head but I just can't see how to do it. It's hard to explain but it's not so much that I want her to be a different person as that I wish I was, so that she would be.
We both struggle with connecting with people and tend to isolate ourselves if we feel others don't like us.

I don't think another school is a viable option - v rural and the only secondary that she could get to independently while we are at work. Wouldn't rule it out though if things don't change for her.

I worry though, that this would all follow her as I am the cause.

Have you had therapy yourself. @oohlalabonbons? I think it would really help to have a space where you could focus on yourself and your own method of relating to people etc -- that would help you see yourself and your daughter as separate entities. You also sound very low and as if your self-esteem is poor.

She isn't you, you know. And you may be vastly overstating the similarities because you're afraid of her struggling with friendships as you did/do.

My mother, who has always struggled with friendships (a people-pleaser with no boundaries and a habit of picking the unlucky, unwell, and unfortunate to be around) would have said she saw herself in me as a child, and that was frankly damaging for us both. In fact, I was an entirely different character but had learned her scripts about how other people always exploit you and how she always felt left out and overlooked etc etc. It took me until university to reject those ideas and start to thrive socially -- as an adult, I have a lot of friends, and am good at making new ones as I've moved around a lot, and DS (9) has a tight gang of friends despite moving countries last year.

This is not to blame you for your daughter's social struggles at all, only to suggest you may be seeing parallels where there are none, or that she would benefit from you doing some work on yourself to be able to model healthy ways of relating to other people for her. (As well as for you.)

My own mother to this day is baffled by my friendships, because by her view, I do it 'all wrong' in that I am confident and talkative, rather than shy. silent and intensely self-deprecating (which is how she thinks you make people like you...)

Not possibly autistic? Just wondering as you said struggling with friendships, forgets to show interest in people, immature and nerdy and that's how I would have described my dc with aspergers at that age.

You can't be a different person and nor can she and you can't live her life for her or try to make her into someone else. You can give her some ideas as you have with joining clubs etc, you can have any potential friends round which can help cement the relationship, you can tell her that people can be mean because they are unhappy themselves and you can tell her that you are always there to listen, love and support her.

She's getting older now though and I think this is the time where I realised I had to take a bit of a step back and let my dc deal with things and work things out for themselves a little bit more and not get so emotionally involved in their life and try to protect them from absolutely everything. Give her time to find her place and her tribe, it might take some time - years even - but be kind and patient and she'll work it out.

Hugs op. I posted not too long ago about my dd. She is only 5 but sounds so similar to your dd. Dh and I are both introverts and she is clearly very similar to us. I also feel really down at times because it's just not in me to be this outgoing, sociable person who makes friends easily. Dh is the same. My dd just goes along with other kids but doesn't really put herself forward. I feel upset at her but then I think I can't because I'm like that. We went to a class party a few weeks ago and she was just ambling along, at one point she was the only child sitting down while everyone was dancing around and having fun. The oddest part was when we got home and she said she had so much fun . I guess she is content in her own way, but I worry so much about her. Sorry I have rambled on but wanted to say I know how you feel.

@Verfremdungseffekt thank you for your comment and sharing your experience with your own mother.

I really hope that you are right in that I may be seeing parallels where they may not be.

I last had counselling on my own self esteem when I met now-DH and he asked me to move in with him. I just couldn't see why he would want to do that with me and I really started spiralling down, stopped going out as would be terrified of seeing other people, wouldn't go into the staff room at work as I would rather hide away than have to speak with others. It did really help, but it was so hard and I'm not sure I could do it again.

@Tal45 it has crossed my mind at times but I don't think ASC, although it is in DH's family. I'm a SENDCo and have quite a good understanding of how it can present in girls.

I have very, very similar issues with my own DD (Y8) and have been going to counselling for a long time myself.
I still have the issues, but counselling is immensely helpful to me for talking about them and having space to sort them out.

@Tal45 thank you for this advice - I think it would be helpful to work out how to do it: She's getting older now though and I think this is the time where I realised I had to take a bit of a step back and let my dc deal with things and work things out for themselves a little bit more and not get so emotionally involved in their life and try to protect them from absolutely everything. Give her time to find her place and her tribe, it might take some time - years even - but be kind and patient and she'll work it out.

Thanks for the understanding @Restart10

There is nothing wrong with you or your DD, the problem us other people being assholes. I think you need therapy and support and once you are more accepting of yourself and confident that you are exactly as you should be, then you will be better equipped to help your child.

By the way, she isn't you and never will be. For good or for bad. But she's herself.

Both you and your daughter sound like me. I have asd. Life has been better since my diagnosis a year ago as I now understand why I have difficulties and accept them as part of who I am.

@parrotonmyshoulder

I have very, very similar issues with my own DD (Y8) and have been going to counselling for a long time myself. I still have the issues, but counselling is immensely helpful to me for talking about them and having space to sort them out.

Maybe I should do this again. It fills me with dread, though - the getting worse before it gets better

I've had that same sch experience OP. Can I say and I mean this in a nice way, it can be helpful to reframe the "friendships" expectations. As an adult now I still have few friends. I still have low moments but overall I decided to make peace with who I am and that my personality and priorities and values are just not compatible with having heaps of friends or doing "extroverted" things all the time.

What I'm trying to say is, I think being who you are is so powerful. Refusing to criticize yourself or wish yourself to be someone else. Somehow teaching this level of self confidence and self respect to DC is what I'm trying to do. Not in an F you kind of way, in a way of everyone's different, everyone has strengths and weaknesses, give people space and set boundaries etc.

What didn't help me was my mum making a huge fuss because she wanted me to be popular and have this big social life. It was confusing. I always felt like such a total failure. That feeling of failure and not being good enough still haunts me. I don't want to pass that level of self hatred on.

If you can help her have "good enough" social skills but leave the rest by the by. No doubt she has incredible talents and abilities which she can excel in. Don't let the standard extroverted norms and expectations drag her down - or you down!

Best of luck

This isn't as much of a problem as you might think, so hugs. Having fewer friends isn't a world ending event, being cautious and finding friends who are a good fit can take a little longer. Year 7 (and 8) do involve a merry go round of students encountering new people and re-evaluating friendships. Be positive about her academic skills, there will be others like that - it's not a character failing to enjoy learning! Just be positive and big up her self worth and I honestly think she will find 'her tribe' and not feel desperate. Teens do feel left out and akward and there's a lot of realising more about genuine friends. It's a part of establishing their own personality, identity and independence.

Support her, be a sounding board and that'll really help her.

Yes, it is awful! I don’t really struggle in between sessions though. Just sometimes within them. Not so much now, but at the beginning I did. Now I sort of shelve things mentally to talk about them in my session.

Hello - just wanted to say I understand this situation very well and have had similar issues. For me, regular and ongoing therapy has been helpful. My DD is now nearly 14 and finally seems to have found a friendship group that she fits into, it's such a relief. She's smart, independent, quirky, and didn't fit into the more typical girl groups at school, and I found her struggles hard because I've always had my own (very low self esteem due to difficult childhood and family issues) and am quite a lonely adult because of it, and really don't want the same for her. The therapy has really helped me to separate my stuff from her stuff, and stop worrying that it's somehow all my fault. It makes it much easier to support and nurture her as the wonderful individual that she is. I wish you the best of luck with everything.

You sound like my daughter and I. We have both just been diagnosed with ADHD. It presents so differently in girls. Dreaminess, in own world, perfectionist, Might be worth a look?

Thank you all for your replies - I'm losing track a little bit of who is saying what but I am reading them all!

Whoever said reframing things and not focusing on friendships so much as it makes her feel like a failure is right, I think. I will try to keep the focus on her positives, like her academics.

I’m going to look at this from another angle and you and other posters might not like it but it has to be said. I am introverted, I am weird, but I have many friends and acquaintances. Being social and being different is not mutually exclusive and you absolutely have to stop thinking this way.

Okay so how can you help her? First of all you probably need to start teaching her to prioritise friendships. Nothing big but basically not opt out of birthdays, make sure you make time for regular catch ups / calls, and you probably need to role model this yourself which whatever friends or family you do have. If she has spent her life watching you not prioritising others and living in your own world she is not going to have even the first clue what to do. But it often starts by watching Mum or Dad picking up the phone at a certain time of day and taking half an hour out to talk to their friends.

Another thing you can do is afterschool classes to expand her friendship group beyond school and give her a bit of confidence. Ask her to pick an activity and then you help her commit to it. Sports / theatre / girl guides / music / dance / gymnastics are be best for this as teachers make time for the kids socialise as mutual trust is important. But you could make friends in more academic classes too provided they come with a social element - eg language or cooking classes are great for getting to know other kids but Kumon tends to be full of kids who want to be in and out as quickly as possible. At her age you might need to bribe her into doing these activities. You can then take the lead for her at the beginning by initiating conversations with parents at the end of the lesson.

If you have family then make time for her to see them as frequently as possible so she has other role models in how to build interpersonal relationships.

It is hard work helping a child build their social skills - as it’s something parents need to demonstrate rather than academics which you can learn just by telling people what to do. But if you take baby steps and show her how to do things it would help her more I think.

@Ozanj I do think that this would help. We are close to my sister and her family - DSis is the biggest extrovert out there and provides a good contrast to my introversion!

I will make more of an effort to model friendships for her - thank you.

she sometimes forgets to show interest in others

What do you mean by the above?

Could you do some coaching with her about asking people questions, asking about them and their interests?